AMA - CCP Acquisiton by Pearl Abyss! Starts at 16:30 UTC!

That’s not the issue, in truth, the term “P2W” is not just inaccurate, it makes it easier for PA/CCP to establish a narrative where any sort of critical observation is the hallmark of unfounded negativity. In other words, the more people say “P2W”, the easier it gets to write off those people as dumb haters and to reaffirm the validity of PA’s directives and CCP’s roadmaps - where the methdology of boiling frogs is rewarding.

PA does not do P2W. What it does, because it is a publicly traded investment management company operating in the games industry, is prioritise the bottom line of venture rewards, using products, participations and acquisitions.

What PA does do is use a very broad concept of P2A, Pay to Accomodate. Time, resources, ability - you name it. It’s the concept that any gameplay action possible is required to be available to both regular players and those who wish and are able to pay for the use of shortcuts, which requires the regular gameplay to favour the use of shortcuts.

In other words, it dances on a very very fine line of segregation between those who pay extra and those who do not, while triggering players pur sang to pay extra as the regular gameplay is at minimum in terms of perception and emotion not valid in terms of competitive or goal driven perspectives.

As said, this is dancing a fine line.

CCP has done this since introducing F2P. They have done so well, even if it up to the point of the decision to move towards establishing CCP/EVE as for sale this started to cross lines at certain points in terms of effects on gameplay / game dynamic for longer term projections. Simply put, until that moment CCP was boiling players as frogs, but they did so without crossing lines of P2W or P2A. So, CCP has kept their word in this regard.

The argument can be made however that in order to present the best possible packaging and presentation towards sale CCP has made some decisions and implementations which in certain ways a) give the impression that EVE as an emergent dynamic is going to die (let’s be honest, this concept already died with the introduction of F2P since that has completely different functional requirements) and b) introduced instabilities which will need to be addressed from that traditional perspective, but which in a commercial reality are not a topic whatsoever. For CCP this has created what is known as a perception problem, it has nothing to do with watching what people do versus what they say (retention), it is the kind of thing which over time introduces the equivalent of negative idea / emotional contaminants which impact acquisition.

I’m sure that at the level of CCP’s upper management they’re well aware of this. It isn’t rocket science after all.

It is however an issue which has already become a challenge because it is combined, regardless of whether proper, desired, appropriate, valid or not, with the general perspective on PA’s established commercial (venture, product, publishing) and community (relations, communications) practices.

So when you do an AMA, it requires a bit more than “guyz tis gonna be awezome”. It requires getting people focused on what they really care about, without marketing. Which in the case of CCP/EVE really comes down to the center point: practical planning and implementation points for content and features of EVE and what people can or cannot do with XYZ.

This AMA has unfortunately utterly, and massively, failed as a messaging excercise for constructive purposes. While it has provided easy metrics which can be used with creative statistics to demonstrate the exact opposite, it doesn’t take a genius to go beyond the fracturing CCP introduced to community streams following F2P and look at the patterns among customer narratives and media reception of those.

All in all it reminds me of the the very same bad media/community management prior to the Summer of Rage. Which is a damn shame. Fortunately, and this is a good thing, while the excercise has failed, it has not aggravated matters. Honestly, this is the least worst scenario, so this is a good thing.

What comes next depends on tweaking narratives CCP sees popping up are divided in followers / supporters / haters, using the last one as a catalyst for a binary divide favouring and stimulating the first two.

As such, P2W as a term thrown around isn’t a good idea. It isn’t valid, it isn’t accurate, and it isn’t the point.

So what is the point?

Boiling frogs. That is one definite thing. The realisation that a) direction and b) implementation cannot be changed or deviated from and that any change will be gradual but it will follow conditional requirements. Now as mentioned by plenty others, here and elsewhere, as long as CCP achieves its goals it will retain the conceptual maneuvering room to introduce change without crossing the lines towards P2A.

Even if CCP were to have issues, there is still is a lot in the acquisition which at first and for a while keeps the new commercial relationship driven by not just revenue goals but also experience and tech transfers. Leaving CCP room to not be forced to cross those lines.

As such, it would be really sad to see CCP pop up and use fear tactics. If you do not support, CCP will not make goals, and then you the customer will have killed your own EVE as you like it. It’s a bad tactic. It’s bad business. And it is methodology which taints subjective perception of those using it, undermines reception of those adopting it in their own communities, and most importantly it aggravates perception problems already present.

So cross your fingers CCP stays smart enough to not go down that road. And for, as example, CSM’s to not be stupid enough to come up with it on their own.

To keep it simple, P2W isn’t the issue. P2A is the problem. CCP managing to not get influenced through exposure to PA for ideas as contaminants so they can keep balancing the effects of directives given to CCP by PA, that is the real challenge.

It’s still CCP, but it is a lesser CCP. Not for its staff, but for its circumstances. It had long distance investors. It now has short-cycle & short-distance investing owners. If anything, this requires feedback and communcation towards CCP to be constructive and accurate, both in terms of advocating and in terms of correcting. As long as CCP remains open to feedback (this is not CSM, that is their tool) that will be fine, and truth be told this is part of CCP’s culture. It is definitely not PA in this regard, so for players it is really easy to determine if CCP were to deviate from that.

So please, no more tossing around of P2W. It’s more complex than that, it’s too easy to turn tables with that. It distracts from more practical challenges. And it also increases distance between staff and customers. Perception challenges are contaminants too.

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Grats on a wall of waffle nobody will read.

Good grief… There just ain’t enough coffee in the world to get me to the end of that whole post.

Have you actually read/watched reviews of BDO instead of writing short novels on this here forum? I’ve hardly done anything BUT for the past two days. And when it comes to my opinion of weather or not BDO is P2W f**kfest or not, I’m more inclined to listen to people who have actual experience playing the game over a longer period of time.

I do agree that skill injectors in EVE are P2A and not P2W. In the end, it doesn’t matter how many skill points you have, you’re still able to failfit your ship so badly that you’re loosing a one-on-one engagement against a player with less skillpoints.

BDO works differently though. You can easily be… Ah why do I even bother? Please do your research before preaching about the differences between P2W and P2A.

All I know is that in April this year, things got so bad, PA had to post an open letter apologising to their player base for all the shitmongery and asshattery they pulled of over the past two years. So now we know what it is PA and CCP have in common.

Although, to CCP’s credit, at least it took them 8 years to severely piss off their player base. And when they apologised, they did it in person, on stage, in front of all their players. These PA jokers only needed two years to ■■■■ with their players so badly it got out of hand and when push came to shove, they just hid behind an online post.

Edit: You sure you’re not a PA employee trying to spread propaganda ahead of trying to ■■■■ us over?

There is a lot to do in null, it could get some P2A in anomalies and mining mechanics. :thinking::shushing_face:

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It has been already done, Skill injectors + rorqual are perfect examples of P2A.

If you can not see that then you will swallow much more in days to come.

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The timing of rorqual change introductions is interesting. More so, the odd selective blindspot in tackling unintended effects. Well, unintended …

Of course, but there is still so much to be done hehe.

Would you call it good, if they took Abyss multiplayer in the direction of good group rewards, like Incursions? If it was better rewards, players might stop running incursion content entirely, since isk/hr is the only consideration. If isk/hr was the same, players would then choose PvE based on … ?

Since incursions are fixed and abyss is not they’d choose incursions

The abyss can be entered from anywhere, the “abyss community” would never have to move. Except if they wanted to keep highsec Abyss gankers guessing: it might not be a good idea to always use the same system.

No I would not. Sorry.

My reasons are based on my past experiences, I used to run some incursions back in the day as well as engage in various “group content”. I give everything that CCP comes up with a good fair and indepth try before passing judgement on it.

So heres the thing. Incursions are still kinda OK, but kinda meh. As you know the number of people doing them has drastically declined. This is mostly to the optimal group size of 10-11 ships / players.

So CCP can make the group abyss like incursions, targeted at same number of players in which case they will also decline, just like incursions, or they can make it smaller groups of 3-5 players, in which case these things will be initially perhaps good depending on the rewards, but then players will leave and be replaced by multiboxers and bots. Which is extremely bad. Their closed nature would become a haven for multibox riskfree farming. Super bad.

IMHO the best things that can happen to abyss are:

  1. Keep the single closed instance, rebalance the risk vs reward for levels 3-4-5, keep the newb ones as is.
  2. Open them up to make them work like any regular dedspace mission with possibility of gankers warping in and ganking, just like they do in regular L4 L5 missions.

Also, they can’t get the risk vs reward right. Abyss income is crap. And yes I know I will get people arguing otherwise, especially those that ran the event and sold everything at the super inflated event prices. But look at it now. Everything, and I do mean everything is in a super sharp drastic decline and it doesn’t look like its going to hit bottom anytime soon. There is still a glut of stuff listed at high prices, but if you check, not much of that glut is selling anymore since the event ended

A large part of this is the economy and CCPs design. I got into building the precursor ships and modules, guns etc. and its all super extra crap and a big loss most of the time. You make no ISK.

Blueprints:

The only blueprints that sell at OK prices are: Leshak, vedmak, the T2 researched large precursor turret, and the T2 researched large occult ammo. Rest of them are utter ■■■■ and so not sell. Many listed for minimum contract prices.

The ships:
Demavik - loss, you get way more ISK from selling the mats then building and selling it.
Vedmak - depending on market swings - average breaks even - sometimes loss, sometimes slight profit
Leshak - still some profit but at current rate of decline it will become a loss very soon, quite possibly within less then a weeks worth of time.

T1 guns - super loss, a huge loss, to be completely avoided
T2 guns - another huge loss. Since the initial hype train and event died down these have taken such a dramatic dive they are not worth building at all. The large ones used to be profitable while hype and event was running, now they are the biggest losers cause require most mats.

The gun situation is particularly bad since there is a glut of them while precursor ships, unlike other ships in the game, use only 1 per ship, thus no need to buy more.

T2 entropic damage mods - these are either very slight profit or slight loss pending market swings. Roughly break even, that’s because they don’t use mats from abyss.

T2 ammo - loss. Again there was a bit of profit during the initial hype and event, and again that is gone.

So all in all the current rewards from abyss are on a continuous downward spiral. IMHO the abyss ships themselves are too underwhelming and need to be simply a bit better to increase the demand for them and make them more widely used by more players in more roles. Then the construction materials drops in abyss need to be increased, or construction requirements need to be decreased.

A steady movement of material at an increased rate would stabilize it all and give a very simple to use tool to increase / decrease profit from running abyss sites at the same time.

When all is said and done, unfortunately, I honestly have zero faith in CCPs ability to make any of this happen and in the right way. They most likely will take the group route, with rewards being good only short term and most likely later on these instances will fall and degrade to multiboxing / botting cause no one else in their right mind will be doing them longterm.

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Thank you CCP.

Hope everyone chills out :sunglasses:

Funny that I have been flaged for FALCONs violation, vired forum isn’t it? Or they are just desperate ???

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AGAIN: this is not proper words for community manager

Yeah, even though CCP stated posting protocol in these new forums would be more lax, time has shown they still rule it with an iron fist. As for posted replies, need to be very tactful and not so blunt when voicing an opinion, there’s way too many fanboys and alts here that meta game these forums by ganging up with the flag option.

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But WHY???

CCP has been sold, they do not have to pretend anymore …

Well they said it in this thread, they’re still conducting business as usual… for now.

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I think it might actually be a good thing, switching from regular investor to gaming one ! I suppose @Hilmar didnt got much choices and couldnt keep his shares.

Also i don’t understand forum hate and talk about p2w, besides owning black desert, we don’t really know Pearl Abyss they aren’t the one that ported it to Europe / North America.

As i understand the one that ported it are korean equivalent to aol / msn messenger.
Gaming wast really their things they wanted money, no time to study our markets !

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This is a common misunderstanding.

CCP is still owned by investors/shareholders, but now they are ownedby PA’s investors/shareholders, not CCPs.

See what I mean?

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i see what you mean but they were partially owned by investors/shareholder already, it basically switched hands to Pearl Abyss ones, except they have no more shares themselves now.

edit: oh the regular to gaming you mean well i don’t know much about PA so i cant really tell maybe its a misconception on my part