An attempt to resurrect the topic of new ships for resource extraction

[Maya_Proton]

Good afternoon. I’ll take the risk of proposing an idea, perhaps this idea has already been mentioned, but I couldn’t find any similar proposals. The idea is to develop “national” features and specializations in resource extraction. I’ve noticed in the game a technology that for some reason has been largely forgotten — strategic cruisers. What if we combine strategic cruisers with tech 3 technology and resource‑extraction barges? Core subsystem. If you want to extract gas, you install a core module for gas, for ice and ore, you use other corresponding modules. Weapon subsystem. An alternative to weapon modules: Amars mine faster but less efficiently. Galentes mine using drones (a unique type of mining), Caldari mine farther (significantly farther), and Minmatars go right into the thick of it, mining a lot but taking a long time to process, or whatever the developers come up with. Propulsion subsystem. Systems that are responsible not only for speed and maneuverability but also, for example, for holds, there are also 3 options: just holds (large volume), corp hangars — miners always need a lot of space — and, for example, Mining Hold. Many miners would sell their soul to the devil for a medium ore, gas, and ice compression module. Which can also be installed in slots if the corresponding Core Subsystem is available. The distribution of mining bonuses is handled by Command destroyers. All this technological marvel must consume a lot of fuel. For example, the same fuel blocks. For the Amarr race, Helium fuel blocks; for others, the corresponding ones. Each such ship must be much more expensive than exhumers. In total, the new ships should provide no more than a 10% advantage in mining speed compared to classic exhumers. The removal of rig modules should also be possible without destroying the modules themselves. This will lead to more alternatives, greater convenience, and greater flexibility. It will even out and increase the demand for all types of fuel blocks. Using such technological marvels in the empire will make suicide raids more frequent. If such a ship is equipped with the ability to use a Covert Ops cloaking device, it will be invaluable. But the payment should also be proportionate. New Mining Tech 3 Platforms Battleship size???

I also have ideas for ship designs that preserve the national color scheme; if the developers are interested, I’ll share them.

[Lucy_Alfrir]

Didn’t the last expansion (or the one before) have new mining ships.

I imagine it’ll be a while before they come round again.

[Maya_Proton]

I understand that no one really cares about my proposal, and I’m 100 % sure it won’t be implemented. But still, I suggest we evaluate the idea and discuss what the potential benefits and drawbacks of this idea might be. Well‑founded criticism is greatly appreciated.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

There has been a bit of discussion on this front.

The problem right now…is it took Scarcity…and alot of the mining community protesting by unsubs…to point to then CCP [Fenris] that the mining economy of EVE tends to crash down onto the Venture.

Now with Catalyst, the considerations and discussions for destroyer hulls…finally got us the Pioneer class hulls. Finally plugging a gap that was very apparent to many EVE players.

There is some value with creating [recreating] Factional Mining hulls. I think having a factional mining hull [frigate-destroyer-cruiser [barge-technically are cruisers]-and larger hulls…would give some benefit to progression in the factional lines.] This would give some value to using skill points and training time…without wasting skillpoints on non-combatant [read ORE line] ship lines.

However, this would mean ORE ships would need to be buffed to give competitive edge versus the factional resource collection hulls.

ORE would be the premier mining/salvage/resource transport and collection faction line. Increased yields, functionality, resource collection efficiency etc. [Currently post-Catalyst its in a questionable shape…with inner-line cross competition and redunancy issues.]

Now the factional mining hulls…would lean more into the factions/weapon-tanking/rep play style. Meaning they can attack/defend themselves and collect resources…while the ORE line up…drops alot of this more for a defensive and resource collection optimization.

This would actually also encourage interaction with certain already available content, but also encourage more aggressive PVP/PVE interactions…lets say you gank a miner in lowsec or wormhole space…now you can pick up his ore/gas/ice and run off. Currently this doesn’t happen organically…unless you are multiboxing or fleet operating and usually this scares away potential targets.

Now on the subject of T2 ships and T3 ships based around mining. I have discussed the idea of T3 mining and hauling ships. We have had people experimenting with ships on private shards and Serenity with more aggressive ways to interact with a variety of content. One player has an idea of a ship that would be on the same level as the orca…but instead of fleet boosts they use the industrial core system…to lock the ship in place increases its strip miner efficiency and use compression for that hull only. So massive resource collection…but stuck to the grid…and can only compress ore that it collects.

I have suggested that the Triglavian Haulers be allowed in game…and get the Triglavian Mining Laser that is on the Resource Extraction Nexus…that shows up from time to time in Pochven. Same idea…lock down on grid…and have a spooling mining laser…that can’t adjusted by fleet boosts…large amounts of ore…no compression. Just raw collection.

The other problem is Specialization…or lack there of.

Smaller ships like frigates…and destroyers do have some unique specialization features. But since Fenris has consistently undermined [ironic] the concept of specialized mining, in favor of generalization with multiboxing players focused around the barges…which basically takes away alot of the niches of the hulls. And the fact Fenris refuses to give mining ships equipment that allows us to fully specialize ships in various mining content [There is no modules to increase collection efficiency of gas mining.]

We also have the problem of lack of progression in the mining genre of ships…barges have become an end point…where further large scale specialized ships and hulls should be putting the next big thing on grid for mining content. [And gankers for that matter.]

I would fine with a BC/BS class mining hull…or T2 or T3 mining hulls in play. Or even hyper specialized…only ICE/GAS/ORE only super resource collectors.

Catalyst has caused all kinds of problems…lower yields, obfuscated details on grid asteroid resource amounts…for shiney graphical effects. Cross competion between frigates/destroyers/barges in ways that really are imbalanced. Huge problems with Mercoxcit [Morphite] collection outside of barges.

I understand and hear your interest…and I believe it should come up. But we also have to clear the problems already on the deck.

[Maya_Proton]

What you think about this module?

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

If it was part of a T3 hull. That would be interesting.

Especially if focused on ice…and where each subsystem swaps the ship to a different ore/gas/ice set up.

The mining command burst might be a bit much…but I am not going to complain on that front.

It would be interesting if you could overheat mining equipment to speed up collection. Would make T3 mining hulls interesting because they can have bursts of higher functional collection/efficiency…at cost though.

I have also considered the idea of “Conversion Modules” if you install a module lets say on an ORCA, this disables the usage of fleet boosts…but now you have four strip miner slots. Or if you convert module again…you get higher drone bay capacity and mbits per second. Allowing you to deploy larger mining drones…again with the downside of no compression or fleet boosters.

The mining abyssal mutations do give us some options…but they are fairly paltry for what should be allowed for mining gameplay.

We need larger heavier equipment. We need bigger ships. We need more variety in the mining drone options. [Combat ships get light/medium/heavy/sentry drones, why is mining drones stuck with light…and then exacavators (only for Rorquals)]

I think it would be an interesting in depth discussion.

[Maya_Proton]

My next fantasy is about resource extraction…

[Aiko_Danuja]

I want to see a ganking barge.

[Maya_Proton]

One of the main questions when mining resources in this game is how do you see the structure of resource extraction?

The next question is whether it makes sense with the introduction of new mining complexes (and they will appear sooner or later) to increase the amount of minerals for the construction of ships. My guess is X2 would be optimal.

Another question, as exchanges are known, is the ideal way to burn inflation. Why not introduce a similar tool. I think players will be happy to work for those NPC corporations or player alliances, receive dividends from shares, but it is also possible to observe the burning shares of large mega alliances or NPC corporations as a result of the invasion of Sansha or other situations. Criticism is welcome. Preferably on the topic.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

I would also like to see materials…and equipment that fits in the lower slots of ships…to increase mining drone yield or reduce the mining drone residue. [really bad right now.]

The other comment you said further down…NPC mining stations should have better reprocessing…versus the other NPC stations. [Not as good a player station…but better than standard NPC stations.]

And those NPC mining stations…would be very interesting for FW [Faction Warfare…if the FW mechanics gave more bonuses.]

Also having the mining stations be drop off points for non-resource ores/ice/gas…but for static rewards…might be a future concept as well. So some mining players can at least earn stable…less manipulated credits…might be a thing. [Points to Mutatinite] It could also be a way to adjust some missions…to have these “non-resource” ores/gas/ice…as decorators…as a little “extra ISK source” that can/can not be ignored by mission runners at their leisure; without making complications for the rest of the economy.

Conversions/Market adjustments. Its funny we have FW ranking ranks. Why not special corporation ranks? As you rank up…besides standing…you get special bonuses…access to that corps unique information/module options etc. Trade some kit here or there, or specific items as a NPC freelance order…to get specific things for LP trade or conversion.

There are tons of options. But I think doing it for the Mining NPC corps would be nice.
We need a little competition with the ORE factional module NPC LP store. Its surprising that each of the factional NPC mining corps do not have their own special tech…they could “hand out” for a price.

[Arthur_Aihaken]

A battlecruiser/battleship-sized miner would be a great addition. Something with at least 4 turrets and 5 high-slots. Maybe a single T1, T2 and Faction (Consortium) variant.

[Aisha_Katalen]

It’s never enough, they always want more. With more safety and less effort.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

Well as long as you get bigger targets to gank…I think you guys would be happy. Don’t be too sad about it.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

I would completely fine with a larger item or ship for mining usage.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

There are tons of options. But I think doing it for the Mining NPC corps would be nice.
We need a little competition with the ORE factional module NPC LP store. Its surprising that each of the factional NPC mining corps do not have their own special tech…they could “hand out” for a price.

My thinking is this, often times we have many characters with standings for the faction NPC mining corps so this would be gamed to hell and back on those various accounts or standing issues. Something would have to be done to engage legacy standings users to “earn” and not just “burn” characters already high in standings or having standings available instantly to characters needs to be addressed. I think if this is addressed, the introduction of specialized faction NPC standings-related issues could be resolved to include specialized issues.

Yet how can you include faction standings without instant access to standings?

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

@Eternus8lux8lucis

My thinking is this, often times we have many characters with standings for the faction NPC mining corps so this would be gamed to hell and back on those various accounts or standing issues. Something would have to be done to engage legacy standings users to “earn” and not just “burn” characters already high in standings or having standings available instantly to characters needs to be addressed. I think if this is addressed, the introduction of specialized faction NPC standings-related issues could be resolved to include specialized issues.

Yet how can you include faction standings without instant access to standings?

Well part of the answer…would be ranks.

Just like FW ranking.

As you rank up for your corp…certain additional options and equipment becomes unlocked.

Standing…could be handled by several layers.

1. “Empire” Standing…unlocks basic interaction. 1-5. [Although standings are still coded to 10.]

2. Then your Corp standings…are tied to ranking. So we don’t invalidate old standings…but now there is an internal standing [rank] that adds new stuff and complexity. Good example…if you have good standing with one corp and ranking…if you hunt their mining fleets…you lose standing and corp rank. [So you can add some balancing concepts there.]]

3. Empire Standings allow you to start interactions for missions. But completing missions will give you Corp Ranks. But the corp system also has more contingencies…like if you attack a competing NPC corp…you can destroy and trade items to rebalance your standings…or even make them turrn their eyes to some activities.

[Eternus8lux8lucis]

Okay, balance is needed for sure. I also think this is something that AI can help with. Given a few constraints, such as storylines of internal politics between faction corps that are AI-generated and also based on player usage metrics, actual rewards and your ideas of “ranking” systems, it would allow for a dynamic gain/loss.

So basically, corp X is friends with Y, but because of some AI-generated capsuleer metric level achieved, a “news” story is created claiming that Y has been accused of corporate espionage against X and is now setting a negative, not positive, standing. Whereas before, attacking corp Y would have incurred negative reciprocal standings with corp X; now, the opposite is true.

I think allowing for something along these lines creates meaningful capsuleer involvement in that they have to keep track of internal storylines and political favor between corporations, factions, etc and gives a real need to keep up to date on lore and storylines. The math related to standings created/destroyed/changed, as well as the basic news stories, are something that AI can handle in its current form.

It would also allow for more dynamic and robust reasoning for the internal standings and ranking systems you have envisioned beyond the corp and faction standings.

One caveat, imo, would be the creation of both standings gains and losses that align with Eve’s basic ideas, where ‘choices create consequences.’

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

Yes I think that would be workable…and it could be another interesting angle to inner/extra-Empire conflicts.

[Mina_Tsunami]

Cool ideas if implemented correctly. t3M… T3miner?

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

There was a post a few years back on Reddit…that did alude to T3MFrig. And some sort of T3Hauler and T3"Barge" sort of.

Or some sort of equipment of technology is another thing of interest.