Navy Faction Mining Barges

With the distribution of Ores and Minerals to the different security levels (Low, Medium, High) the need for more diverse hulls has become prevalent. Keep in mind, part of this suggestion also revolves around the idea of adding mining bonuses to Faction Warfare Space - to encourage Faction Warfare corporations to mine in the space.

With that said, the primary issue with Mining is that Mining is primarily a victim activity. Unless you have people providing over watch, the ability to deter enemies is not there. Additionally, when we look at roles - someone in a defensive ship is either not producing, bored or otherwise unengaged. The goal of this ship line would be to provide militarized mining ships for group play.

These ships would require the original hull in their production and would be traded in for Loyalty Points - the goal would be to increase the hull value marginally by about 15 - 35 mil. These ships should not be prohibitive to field (we want people to use and lose them). They would be bought exclusively from the faction warfare market. The combat firepower of these ships would ideally be slightly lower to that of a standard T1 cruiser.

Procurer Hull - Navy Escort Barge

  • Gallente: Blasters and Rail - Medium Armor Tank (Minor Personal Rep Bonus) - Moderate Speed Increase to Original Hull.
  • Caldari: Missiles - Heavy Shield Tank ( More Resists) - Slow
  • Amar: Energy Weapons - Heavy Armor Tank (More Resists) - Slow
  • Matari: Projectile Weapons - Medium Shield Tank (Minor Personal Rep Bonus) - Moderate Speed Increase to Original Hull

Retriever Hull - Navy Logistics Barge

  • All Ships: Larger Ore Hold - Faster Velocity - Better Align and Warp - Slightly Improved Tank
  • Gallente: Close Range Armor Rep Bonus
  • Caldari: Close Range Shield Rep Bonus
  • Amar: Armor Rep Range Bonus
  • Matari: Longe Range Shield Rep

Covetor - Navy Information Support Barge

  • All Hulls - Improved Mining Rate in Low Sec Systems - Slower Movement
  • Caldari - Improved Shield Tank + ECM Drone Bonus + ECM Burst Bonus + Increase Drone Hold
  • Gallente - Improved Armor Tank + Target Range Dampener Drone Bonus + Warp Disruptor Range (35%)
  • Amar - Improved Armor Tank + Tracking Disruption Drones Bonus + Energy Neutralizer Range + Drone Hold
  • Matari - Improved Shield Tank + Stasis Drones Bonus + Target Painter Bonus + Drone Hold

How They Play:
The strength of this fleet deployment is solely based on your ability to engage them and not their willingness to engage you. The navy escort barges are stubborn, sport a larger tank and are very slow - their strength comes from their ability to use turrets at longer ranges to deter threats. Navy Logistic Barges sport a larger tank and a rep bonus (either to range or amount, but not both), they move faster and have a vastly increased hold for shuttling. The Information Support Barge provides increased tank, improved mining rates when out of high sec, slightly larger holds and mass drone Ewar.

The hope is that you would have a slow, tanky fleet of ships with mixed roles. These roles should not be stronger than dedicated role ships (logistics, ewar, combat cruisers). But should provide room for joint operations between players where massed ships can mine together and defend themselves effectively as a pack. I would like to suggest something similar for transport hulls at some point as well.

The idea is to facilitate group play that removes boredom of the activity, while also ensuring that players are not solely on grid victims. If working together they can repel a smaller combat fleet attacking them. They should also receive some bonuses to operating below high security. It could also facilitate meme fleets.

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Mining is an activity that is primarily partaken by players with a victim mentality.

Miners got Procs and Skiffs that could go toe to toe with cruisers and win. Then when that wasn’t enough, they got an Orca that can take on battleships whilst tanking ~1000dps for every other mining ship within 30km. And after that; they’ve all just got yet another a tank buff.

You already have exactly what you are asking for, if only you had the brains to use it. When are you going to realise it is not the ships that make you such a victim? Its just you!

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Yeah, a Skiff is a 250 - 300 million ISK investment. A T1 Crusier is 14 - 30 million on average. A Procurer can destroy a dumb cruiser pilot, and costs on average 35 - 80 mil. If you lose a cruiser to a procurer then you have a serious issue with your playstyle - you should be able to defang its drones with no issue and then burn its hull. You can literally fly away from it if your losing.

I know you are used to fighting people who can barely fight back and still losing. But I prefer to fight people who can arm themselves on average. The idea is to provide miners with a cheaper upgrade alternative that allows for fleeted defense in high risk zones. The goal is to encourage people to get into positions where they will fight, rather then engaging in cat & mouse.

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A skiff can take on more than a T1 cruiser. And a fully fit Proc costs is similar to that of a fully fit T1 cruiser.

You can say that about any drone boat then. The proc/skiff has a comparable drone boat to T2 cruisers, only with much more tank.

You should check my loss-board before you make such assumptions. Don’t try to be a tough guy with yours either…

You just don’t understand how non-consensual pvp works.

When you have a target sitting in the same space for hours, like a mining fleet, all you have to do is guestimate the strength of the fleet and then assemble a force that gives you the result you want (usually an overwhelming victory). Its the same thing that happens to gate camps that sit on gates for long enough. Someone eventually forms a counter fleet and clears them off the gate. Nothing you propose is going to change that.

Don’t believe me?

The counters to a fleet attacking a mining fleet that has already been measured up by an enemy scout, is to either withdraw or respond with a hidden defence fleet that the enemy scout didn’t see (or otherwise cannot face). This is the whole point of the Rorqual PANIC module (or any mining defence strategy); to allow a response fleet to arrive (like tanking long enough for CONCORD to show up in hi-sec).

TLDR
You’re barking up the wrong tree.

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A Skiff is 250 million. It is able to sport a good tank and has decent drone capacity. You can literally kill it with a frigate by outpacing the drones and moving around them. You can fight it with a cruiser and kill its drones at which point the only thing it has is a flat brick tank. It will never be able to keep you in range unless it is a troll fit with two webs and a prop mod. Which would massively reduce its tank. If solo that would not kill any competent active tank cruiser. A Procurer costs 60 million base hull cost + 5 - 20 mil in fittings; that is about 75 to 85 mil. A crusiers T1 hull is 8 - 12 mil and fittings are about 5 to 20 mil. It is nowhere near the same bracket of pricing.

No it isn’t. Majority of drone boats rely on their ability to use speed, fit tackle, and tank. They are far more flexible in the engagements that they can get into.

My killboard is relatively great. Feel free to look it up. Yours is essentially you losing an orca and killing miners with battle cruisers.

I understand how non-consensual pvp works perfectly well. I literally do it all day. This difference is that every fight I engage in does not require me to have overwhelming force to win. A lot of the time a battle can be won by basic fitting knowledge and understanding of another ships limitations. Which is why a procurer is not scary unless you get a wrecking shot from drones in a frigate.

I’m not watching those videos. The point of my suggestion is to create a militarized mining ship that is competent enough to engage and more competent when paired with others. Which will encourage them to stand and fight (and die) then for them to run away and station up until the threat is gone. I’m not really sure why you find the entire idea so offensive. There is nothing enjoyable about sitting in vulnerable ships, perma pointed until your enemy musts to kill you, players are more likely to take risky actions if they have a ship that can deal with a threat. You see this with exploration fit ships, they are optimized for PVE but can still fight off PVP ships without being completely handicapped.

Also, this isn’t really optimized for Rorquals. The idea is to encourage groups of 3-10 players to work together in a mining fleet in Low Security (Not SOV) where small gang activity is more prevalent. It is unlikely those players will be dogged by 40 cruisers. Instead, they are more likely to come into conflict with an equally sized group. I genuinely do not care about Rorqual mining or Null Sec - this is primarily for Low Security Miners and ideally something that can be then paired further into FW space.

and seriously man. You bring up the Rorqual - that is about 6 bil on hull and up to like 10 to 15 bil after fittings. It is literally a capital ship, of course it will be able to tank multiple ships for a period of time. Also, that isn’t a mining fleet. It is a single ship.

then take some security…ie combat ships with the miners duh

That is extremely boring. You essentially have someone who is doing nothing while others sit in a belt for an hour. While also not producing anything. The point of this request is allow people to take on that roll while also being productive.

No. :roll_eyes:

Both T1 cruisers and procs come to about 50 mil each fully fit.

And eve marketer:

Then you can do that to ANY drone ship, because it’s the exact same drone bay.

Confirming my vexor is such a great frigate killer because of it’s speed.

Your killboard is non-existent for years. And your idea of how things work reflects that.

Edit-
Tell you what. Why don’t you ‘mine’ in a vexor fleet. Combat fit everything except the 5 mining drones. See what kind of enemy turns up.

Then after that, do it in a myrmidon fleet. And see what enemy fleet turns up then.

Then do it in a Dominix fleet. See who turns up.

And finally do it in a carrier fleet. See what kind of fleet that draws.

You’ll eventually realise that it doesn’t matter what you’re flying or how powerful your ships are. The fact you’re sitting still for hours allows any locals to form a fleet to match.

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The idea of wanting barges that are reasonably capable of PvP and also reasonably good at mining simultaneously just sounds like wanting to have your cake and eat it too. Ships should be specialized.

Miners would probably adapt by never mining with any other ship. PvPers would adapt by just bringing something that can counter your navy barges. We call this power creep.

Mining barges have already been buffed extensively, perhaps even excessively, with regards to survivability in PvP encounters. If they need to protect their fleets they already have many options like cloaky Falcon alts, hidden battle skiffs, citadel weapons, etc. There’s a thousand ways a mining fleet can bait and destroy any would-be pirates.

Thanks for the reply by the way. Might disagree but at least you deal with it in a reasonable manner. This is probably the biggest issue with any type of proposal like this. The general hope is to provide a dual specialized combat role, while not stepping on the toes of T1 - with the main factor being an increased cost that allows for a diminished dual role.

Absolutely. though I am more so considering this in the context of small group operations. Think 3-4 players who do not have access to infrastructure (I know this is extremely niche). I am just tired of seeing a lack of people in lowsec FW space doing things outside of the rare Gate Camp. The few miners you do come across are usually fully aligned. So outside of the rare person engaging in trickery (IE: Battle Skiff) its more a game of cat & mouse / waiting out the other. Same issue has been hitting FW where trying to engage in a fair fight gets you blue-balled, so you have to catch them with a recon.

Nope. Ships have roles :smiley: Deal with it bro.

Because you and your ilk’s whining, it has ruined the battle proc by letting CCP take its third mid.

Pre-patch, the battle proc was a perfect stealth neut drone boat. Now it is a sad shell of its former self.

3-4 players is infrastructure ROFL. 2 of them mine, 2 of them protect.

Also people aren’t doing more in FW or low due to lack of imagination, not game mechanics.

Its literally not whining. I’ve never bothered whining about the current iteration of mining ships. I’m not really sure why the first thing people do on this forum is get aggressive and attack character. It’s okay to disagree with idea’s without instantly slinging feces at everyone.

Yeah I agree, I’m annoyed they gutted its mid slots.

IDK man, FW used to be full of life back between 2010 and 2014. The fact they haven’t touched or reiterated the system since is really sad and it could do with injection of content. I seriously want to see more empire navy ship hulls for use. Whether it be cruisers, miners, whatever; just more to spend on. That being said, I’m really not sure I’d want them to change it (if recent changes to the game are any indcator).

Its just become an LP/ISK factory. There are some small corps still doing it as I understand. If FW actually meant somthing, it’d be great.

I’d love for Empire standings and what they control to matter and the ability to shift those borders.

Can you imagine if Jita became Amarrian and Amarrians got lower taxes than the other Empires :smiley:

That’s the kind of faction warfare I want.

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I think faction ships are a great idea. Why wouldn’t they steal ores tech and use it for themselves.

  1. Matar would be a speed buff. Get to rocks in belts faster
  2. Gallente would be drone buffed. Their strengths give them more yield with drones
  3. Caldari would give more shield tank, best I can think of. I bet there is something else we can do here that is better for mining.
  4. Amarr more range? Not sure here either, but the benefit should be mining focused like less waste or more range or faster cycles etc

:roll_eyes:

Yes. Good idea.

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