^^^^
This
helping newbros find their way in eve is important but spending real money doesnât help them in that, in fact, it can even make it worse since spending real money on a ship only to have it get blown up in seconds is beyond painful
there are already ways for people who want to spend real money to skip grinding or catch up to the existing players, anyone can buy plex and then sell it for isk which can then be spent on anything the player might need, including skill points from injectors made by players and ships made by players, so there isnât a lack of ways to catch up. thereâs a lack of knowledge on how to do it, so in my opinion, there should be a bigger emphasis on telling new players how to do this and on directing them to already established player groups that have a big focus on helping new players such as eve university, pandemic horde and karmafleet fleet
signed
In other words: We are aware that you, the players are pissed, but we will do it again in an enforced manner in the future anyways.
3 Likes
Thank you @CCP_Swift for at least acknowledging the concerns of the player base. And for suggesting that there is at least some monitoring that such sales donât completely undermine the in game economy.
I personally would prefer micro transactions to be kept to cosmetics and things that are inherently tied to a character (can never be put on the market), and I wonât be buying any packs that donât fall within this bracket.
~Vin
1 Like
We donât want you to sell ships out of thin air to ANY players. We donât care if the players are new, bittervets, F1 pilots, grandchildren of your cousin or whatever!
Do you remember the Slogan âEve is real!â? Can you explain me how EVE can be real, when you are creating ships out of thin air?
12 Likes
Nobody seems able to tell me what the new player actually âwinsâ in this âpay to winâ melodrama.
The real situation is quite the reverse of what everyone describes here. I recall I started Eve on Sept 22nd last year, and went to Omega 11 days later on October 2nd. It was already agonising mining in a VentureâŚknowing that bigger and better mining ships were available. And even after going to Omega, I still had to wait a number of days for the skills to fly a Procurer.
One has to have the patience of Job for this. And I can fully understand why many canât be bothered and simply quit. Yet people go on here as if allowing a noob to fly a barge right away was some huge unfair advantage and said noob is going to take over the entire universe within a weekâŚwhen in actual fact the noob is really having a ludicrous dis-advantage removed.
HeckâŚeven now, 6 months into the game, I still canât fly the Tornado and the Hecate that I bought because the skills for them fitted the way I want are some way down the list and other skills are more important at the moment. I could âpay to winâ by paying several billion ISK to shorten the queue. Nobody would be any the wiser. Thereâd be no lengthy â Cilla Cybin paid to winâŚits not fair ! â threads hereâŚnobody rage quittingâŚand Iâd be engaging in a far more âwinningâ purchase than getting a RetrieverâŚdoing a P2W that was already a part of the game for years !
Most of the 4.5bn ISK and 100 or so ships across my 3 characters is from PLEX. Mining for hours on end got me about 1bn of thatâŚand if I was still stuck looking at a laser for hours on end just to buy a Gnosis Iâd have hurled my PC at the wall weeks ago.
Thereâs the sheer irony. Players like myself are already âpaying to winâ. Many of the people wailing about P2W here are likely themselves buying PLEXâŚand wail about Retrievers yet see no hypocrisy in already being able to buy and skill a Titan via a credit card.
The âpay to winâ boat left dock long ago. And most of the people wailing here are passengers on it.
2 Likes
Because âpay to winâ is a misnomer. It is a pay to lose situation.
CCP has always had the ability to spawn anything it wants in game, but there are VERY strict rules against it. THIS, for some reason I just donât get seems to be an exception worth entertaining.
What is actually does is when you take it to the extreme is invalidate ALL player effort.
What then is the point of playing the game?
My answser is that there is none, EVEs USP has been invalidated and with it all the efforts of my past actions along with everything I could do in the future.
I will not play that game.
3 Likes
The problem is that it has nothing to do with the fact that you can buy a ship for cash. Well, ok, people are pissed off about it, but thatâs not the CORE of the issue. The real issue is in the fact that CCP is creating these ships out of thin air. Nobody had to mine, refine, and actually BUILD the ships CCP is giving away for cash.
But noobs already get ships âfrom thin airâ as part of missions. The Venture itself is from thin air, in mining missions. I have a Tristan and a bunch of other frigatesâŚabout 5 in all all from thin air in security missions. Anyone can go into any station and get a Velator from thin airâŚin fact at very little cost you can turn it into quite a handy 70DPS ship. So its not as if Eve doesnât already provide numerous ships ( not to mention the numerous free fittings and modules via missions ) all from thin air.
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I found this reply fitting: https://www.reddit.com/r/Eve/comments/thk2xp/my_thoughts_on_ccps_reply_to_an_open_letter_to/
Player effort verses cash upfront.
What is stopping Serpentis Velators from being handed out like smarties?
What Iâve learned from this:
CCP actively wants the entirety of the existing player base gone. They want every single player that wants the Eve that they knew and loved to disappear, the Eve that is a slow, patient process of building skills and isk and into ships and losing them and learning and rebuilding and so forth. But they canât just boot everyone off the server today because itâd be a PR nightmare and they still have to make money in some way.
So theyâre going to slow roll it, slowly replace the population of old, want to have a difficult game players with all these new, instant gratification wallet warriors. They want the players that want to whip out the credit card, pay 200 bucks for a titan, then jump into some completely artificial fight only brought on by everyone there starting in a frigate and clicking on the âYes, I want to upgrade to my titan for 50 bucks/Buy a titan for 200 bucks nowâ button. They want the players that are willing to drop 15 bucks to finish Mining Barges 5 in 2 minutes rather than 20 days, without having to go to the trouble of at least going to buy the injector first.
Eve as it was is done. Get ready for Eve II: Star Citizen Boogaloo. Thatâs what weâre going to get at Fanfest, our just ârewardâ for 20 years in the making.
8 Likes
Strange how all of a sudden mining requires âeffortââŚyet this forum is full of ganker threads where miners are the lowest of the low, practically vermin status, mining away at âfree ISKâ, yada yada.
So which is it ?..as I never see any of you guys pop into those threads with a â actuallyâŚmining requires effort â comment. Not once.
That started around 2007.
hopefully CreditCard ComPany wont add capital ship packs because that would generally kill all capship production⌠these prospector packs should be created by players for another playersâŚ
if CCP continues to create ships from air they will impact economy deeper.
i want to produce the titan and enlist it on some lowsec keepstar so anyone can buy itâŚ
adding ships for real life aka âprospector packsâ completly negates what are players needed for,yes make cruiser battlecruiser battleshp packs then marauder packs blackops packs and more. that is how to eliminate old veteran players and to attract new playersâŚreplacing old playerbase with new playerbase is still deadend.
limiting prospector pack one per account⌠but if someone got 30 accounts then what? just delete it.
1 Like
Iâll answer your question if you answer mine.
20 days is a heck of a long time for a noob. Those first weeks are the precise period in which noobs decide whether they are into the game or not. If their sole experience is sitting there watching a mining laser and making the equivalent of 1.3 pence an hourâŚand finding out theyâve got to wait at least 3 weeks to get the Procurer someone is mining in next to themâŚdo you really expect them to be enthralled ?
CCP were simply trying to help noobs past this, the all important first weeks in the game. The sky isnât falling down.
Now is not the time to apply logic to this situation.
1 Like
This discussion seems really hard to keep track of, probably because people disagree on at what point weâre crossing a line or on what exactly is objectionable. Some people are probably just piling in on a bandwagon.
In my opinion, and in the general consensus among older players that I see, paying money to buy expensive things on the market ends up being pay to lose.
For that reason alone I object to CCP marketing that makes it seem otherwise. These packs, as well as PLEX sales marketed directly at players whoâve lost a ship as a means to get revenge all cross that line and I count them as predatory marketing.
The second objection is that players can already pay CCP money to buy things on the market through PLEX, but CCP wants to sell ships directly. No player can compete with CCPâs industry, and until CCP started selling ships for real money, no player had to. You can argue that ships like the venture come from âthin airâ but doing your tutorials and getting a reward is not much different to me than going out mining and manufacturing. They are both players getting a reward for doing something in game. If a player wanted to try and make a business out of completing the tutorial missions over and over, they could try that and see if it pays well. CCP, on the other hand, can produce as many ships as it wants with no time or effort required, and people donât want to have to be afraid to be in competition with that. CCP can do things by fiat that no players can.
Invoking the high expense of the ships does not work as an effective defense since the effort required to make ships would set their price and availability. After hitting everyone with scarcity, telling players that newbs are screwed in the new economy and need to pay them money to compensate is kind of⌠sketchy.
Goods that new players consume, be it ships or ammo, should be reasonably possible to make by new players. As players age and gain experience, more advanced and expensive items should be reasonably possible to make, at least any of these items that theyâre expected to require to play the game and enjoy it. I donât want to give them free stuff, but I do want them to be able to earn it in a reasonable time frame. If the game has become so unforgiving that the developers feel they have to offer ship packs to make the NPE viable, thatâs more of a problem than a solution, to me.
5 Likes