How many other spaceship MMO’s are out there? STO and SW:TOR come to mind and both have some serious issues. I’m a refugee from the latter and STO’s publisher skeeves me out.
Of course that’s not the only answer. There’s a lot of fun to be had in frigate and destroyer combat and you can get to T2 in either pretty quickly.
I dunno, Elite: Dangerous sounds like it might be good, but the grass is always greener etc. etc.
E:D did slip my mind and I have considered giving it a shot. It may be the sop I need once the CQ gets summarily executed. But it’s not exactly an MMO though. It has some multiplayer elements but those are fairly limited.
Once I started playing multiplayer games I’ve rarely touched a single player game and pretty much gave up on television. When I discovered raiding there was no going back. Not because I want to feel elite but because I like the social dynamic of large group activities.
Most of the people I know who’ve played and stuck with the game for awhile before quitting are split 50/50 between those who moan about nothing new/lack of content and those that have quit due to changes to things - latest two I know had like 20 odd strategic cruisers and have stopped playing due to the changes.
A good proportion of those that quit complaining about content basically got dragged into the whole nullsec thing through various forums, etc. and to be frank are looking for someone to hold their hand into new content rather than go out and find/make it for themselves.
EDIT: Regarding griefing - when I actually spent some time discussing it with some of the people I know IRL who tried the game and quit due to griefing it wasn’t so much the griefing that turned them off it was the point when they came to realise that in many cases there was simply no realistic way of getting back at people i.e. once they realised the bounty system was basically window dressing, etc.
Even though numbers have fallen over time I think you will still see a consistent player basis. I have played WOW since the beginning with a group of friends as we parted ways I stayed and played WOW with my wife. But they have ruined it since the raid/dungeon finder. There is no true pvp in my opinion and the market system is as complex as a 1st grade mathematics textbook. I left WOW and came to EVE because of the learning cliff, because of the politics, and markets. And I have come and gone from EVE multiple times because of life every time I come back I know it’s the game I want. I play tons of games but I have never wanted to be good at a game as much as I have wanted to be good in Eve. CCP might mess crap up but as long as they don’t bend to the demands of crybabies or 13yr olds complaining their tier 2 ship got ganked they will be good. Eve is not here to be a friendly game and it shouldn’t be. I’m not saying we should dog cuss newbies or not help them but at the same time part of the adventure should be the struggle. You find and make friends to succeed. I currently just started back playing and came back solely for the game and to see it evolve and continue the adventure.
You may be right.
I think a lot of companies will come unstuck chasing VR.
Whilst some people will love it, I think in the main it will not be popular.
It will crash and burn just like 3D TV.
Since I discovered MMOs 10 years ago the magic has gone and I can’t keep pretending that I can’t see the cynical game design underneath all the pretty graphics. I think that happens to most people who play MMOs for a long time.
MMO game design is mostly not about what’s fun, but about what psychological tricks can be employed to keep people logging in, and to keep them logged in for as long as possible, making them invest their time (and money) which then leads to them being suckered by the sunk cost fallacy.
After years of this you end up with a community that hates both itself and the game, forever hoping that the next big update is going to bring back the magic. Gradually, through sheer fatigue and the realisation that the good old days ain’t coming back, the playerbase dwindles - and there’s nothing the developers can do about it.
I think it’s a pretty good indication of what a content desert Eve has become that people now unironically refer to actions you’d perform in any pvp arena game as “creating content.”
It’s been like this for years, nothing is new except the rate of people leaving to those coming in really.
It’s a combination of factors not just one. Just a few off the top of my head:
Aging player base - Life goes on, and for many games have to go by the wayside as more important matters demand our time.
Burnout of leadership/content generators - Believe it or not eve has always been about making conflict out of nothing. We have never really had a true reason to fight other than “Grr BoB” “Grr Russians” “Grr Goons.” All this content generations has fallen upon the few, and combined with just getting older and life catching up to us there is the simple matter of burnout where enough is enough and they walk away.
Stagnation - Brought about by the lack of content generators via leadership leaving or mechanics creating mountains which need to be overtaken to gain meaningful conflict. Two largest examples currently involving mechanics are jump fatigue/ranges and citadel defense mechanics. If it’s hard to get to a fight and even harder to force a fight, then why fight?
Lack of conflict divers - As I hinted at above, CCP has never given players a reason to fight. Our reasons have always been our own to drive a made up narrative like “Grr Goons.” The game has no mechanics in place to force players to get up and move; in fact CCP has implemented mechanics to make this even less necessary with IHub upgrades effecting ore and pirate anomaly spawns! Allowing for players to make due with less space and removing the reason we ever had and pursuing expansion.
Nothing can be done about aging players but to turn to trying to better retain new players coming into the game. For starters removing the faction restrictions from Alpha might help spur this more, while restricting faction ships to Omega only.
The “easy” answer to low/null conflict issues is very likely implementing a depletion of resources on all levels. Focusing most pressure upon an individual’s level (ores and anoms) - not alliance level since they can always turn to tax their members if current revenue cannot sustain their activities. By hitting player wallets you create an internal desire to find greener pastures making it easier for the content generators/leadership to spur on a war. When resources are drying up players also find it less desirable to sit there for hours grinding less isk and more inclined to join the war efforts. By making players want to fight you will see more players step up and want to assist in leading such fights as well as a reduction in burnout in the old guard as they no longer need to beat the drums themselves to get people into fleet.
Citadel mechanics just need to change. They have item safety there for a reason, it’s existence makes any argument of making them nearly invulnerable outside of a time of their choosing unfeasible. I’m not saying get rid of item safety, what I am saying is they need to be vulnerable 23/7 just like a POS with the holding having a loose capability to chose how long each RF will last. Giving the attacker a hope of creating decent timers for themselves to come back. I’ve written several posts fully explaining my thoughts on this matter.
This is a horrible wall of text…
TL; DR - This is nothing new, it’s actually quite natural. However, CCP has made several misteps in mechanics they have introduced which has made it more difficult for entities to force fights and generate meaningful content for it’s member speeding up the process of burnout and natural attrition.
I think these are pretty good points, but I’d like to add that it’s pretty hard to be “grr” anybody anymore because all the major powers are led by pretty much the same kind of egomaniacal assholes (even if some of them have a little more personal extravagance than others) and half of them have changed sides at some point. Oh look, Mittens and Sort Dragon are having a little tussle up in Lonetrek, I hope they have a lovely time
No new large scale expansions or drastic changes.
No new ship lines/factions
High Plex prices/broken market.
General “EA” ification of everything.
Too many skins and clothing items that are just palette swaps. I want more skins and more clothing items that are distinct. Not just a recolored trucker hat. No creativity from ccps part in a long time.
Only redesigning one ship at a time is a good example. Do a whole tier of ships.
(All frigates, then destroyers, then cruisers. Not 1 cruiser every 6 months.
True and it’s a big deal. There’s a lot of opportunities in which I’d like to fully participate (‘fully’, because the game is set up such that it’s most satisfying if you fully immerse in the activity), but I just can’t - I work a sixty hour week and there’s not enough time to play a big role in lots of those engagements. I’ve often said that Eve is more than a game - it’s a lifestyle. A lifestyle which, btw, is so comprehensive it demands a work-week all its own.
That’s why I was implying that the “Grr” anything has always made fictitious propaganda to actually try to get people behind a war. Some people may actually not like a certain alliance/person, but not nearly enough to actually cause a feud. And even back in the day Russians were the only one who actually liked and tried to uphold the mantel of villain to stir content.
CCP turned it from a sandbox into a litterbox…and this one has not been scooped in ages.
I played this game starting in 06 up to a couple years ago. When I look back and ask the question you’ve asked, a few possible causes come to mind. I don’t really believe the causation as being RL or the game is old and tired. No… EVE for me is a spectacular game, even to this day.
First off - The toxic mentality of some players.
A developer once said something close to --> Players stay longer if they are podded in the first few weeks of playing. I’ve also read that some believe hi-sec was far more dangerous in 06,07,08,09 than is now. While I agree there were explosions, many explosions in hi-sec back then, the ships exploding were combat, not defenseless industrial and haulers. The players in that era were at war and they fought. Result was players engaged and interacted. Industrialist and the like were left alone, unlike today.
Now… there are multiple reasons happening at different times and years which lead me to stop playing EVE… now going on 2 years. BTW - as I type this, I’m on discord with other gamers who played EVE in the past. Several of which (long-term players) indicated to me they too, stopped for some of the reasons I’m posting below. By the way, the below is just a tip of several things, I could go back further to when we had T2 prints being given out by… well, lets just leave it here.
Slap 1 Ghost training - Gone because it meant more money for CCP. Would not have been a problem had they not advertised it as a feature at first. (see quote in #3) Make more money removing said feature (bug).
Slap 2 Slapping long term players in the face with belittling their efforts in training certain skills (learning skills) by removing them for newer players not patient enough to train them properly. (The instant gratification players.)
Slap 3 The whole “Greed is good” debacle. Can we all say Monocle?
Slap 4 The implementation of micro-transactions. See quote in #3.
Slap 5 Skill injectors, yet again belittling the years and efforts of long term players who trained years to get the skills accumulated. Yet again CCP catering to the instant gratification player in the name of (see quote in #3). What was wrong with players too lazy or impatient buying an old used up character from the bazaar?
I’m gonna stop here as I’m sure there will be plenty who disagree with everything I’ve posted here. It’s ok, I’m simply stating the reasons I removed myself from EVE with no intention of returning as I doubt the reasons I left will be reverted or addressed.
I say undoubtedly EVE for me was a game I enjoyed tremendously and feel today, beats any other spaceship game. I just can’t bring myself to playing the game again. Yes… I still read the forums from time to time -I have hope EVE will revise it’s stance of catering the pay2win and instant gratification crowd. Nothing wrong with respecting players who supported you for all those years and sticking with you during your… booting incidents.
and no… you can’t have my stuffz spread across 8 accounts. I’m still hoping for a miracle.
Theories on why so many people have quit over the last 2 years ?
I blame it all on CCP Soundwave & Co who years ago started the mass exodus with their constant nerfing.
My guess would be that people play it for spacebattle-funs… but since CCP introduced hotdrops, this feature has been removed from the game because you can’t have a spacebattle now without fear of being hotdropped even if you’re in a solo HAC… some alliances will hotdrop a Marauder with Titans…
I left EVE in 2008 after 5 years playing daily, because CCP started promoting survival of the most NAP’s instead of survival of the strongest, in combination with lack of balls to do what’s right
In the early days of EVE there was an incident with a corp-disband which ended up with the corp-name stolen, but CCP went in and gave the corpname back to it’s original owners. But when BoB was disbanded due to faulty alliance mechanics and had its name stolen, CCP caved in to the playerbase’s pressure and didn’t revert the change.
Here’s a few things CCP should’ve done.
Only 1 Titan per alliance.
No Cyno’s while engaged in combat.
Alliances only allowed a small number of positive standings.
Only coverops ships can fit and use Cynos, and cannot open a Cyno within 10seconds of decloak. Must remain stationary during cyno, destruction of Coverops will result in cyno closing.
An alliance cannot be disbanded without the consent of a majority of the alliance corporation directors.
Capitalship weapons cannot hit ships smaller then Battleships.
(Titans able to lock and kill frigates is just stupid).
Just picking some points:
14 months ago. Besides Goons loosing their space, the most relevant thing I remember is that the amount of fights given was really low.
Almost three years ago.
Mostly ■■■■. Almost completely drove content out of high class wh-space. The capital balance did the rest.
In the most boring way possible. Few people are entosing stuff, rest is sitting there and waiting just in case…
Doing what?
Except giving some quality of life to many players, they also mad structure shooting more boring than before (anbd wjo thought that would have been possible?). Few people actually do damage, the rest is waiting, just in case…
And they removed loot and added more and longer timers → more boredom.
What now?
Very few. The latest Concord ships are hardly usable (not because of stats, but because of being considered nice gank targets) and the Mordu’s legion ships are already 38 months old.
Command destroyers and the Porpoise were an actual additions to the game.
And now let me ask you: what has there been in the last 12 months that was a really exciting event or addition to the game? Most stuff you are mentioning is either old, made things worse, is just more of the same or only matters to very few.
Sheetty sov mechanics is what keeps me off the game, most of the time, as a member of a large coalition with mandatory CTAs aka take two JB, 1 WH, and 50 more jumps to the end of blue space to get a hostile astrahus to a reinforce state with no fight. Sov mechanics sucks az for real. It basically promotes the static space sov and the large size of alliances that hold em. I hate it with all my heart and thinking of moving to wh or some sort instead. Else I’ll just quit soon.
Two Words…No Aliens. No sense of “To explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life…” etc etc