[ARC] Joined operation request to the Empires, EDENCOM and loyal capsuleers

Where would your masters’ priorities lie on that spectrum? From here it looks as though the delusion of moral superiority is also the Gallente in you.

‘Properly’? They’re baseliners who never had any chance to oppose the actions that determined their fate—actions which took place entirely in space. They weren’t ‘conquered’, they were seized. It’s like claiming that because TEST lost Fountain eight years ago, that proves the entire Triglavian Collective should be subject to the Mittani now. At no point were those people able to be involved in the ‘proving’ that decided their fate, and so where their lives are concerned, the Triglavians and all of you Kybers ‘proved’ nothing.

You’re just thieves, trying so very hard to fabricate a claim to legitimacy.

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Unfortunately, due to Electus Matari once again interfering in Pochven operations, the hand off must be postponed.
As I have taken personal responsibility for the health and wellbeing of the survivors, I shall continue to do so. They will be fed, provided adequate birthing, and given plenty of crayons.

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The Pochven skies are red, are they not?

Prove me wrong.

We regret the timing of our operations causing an inconvenience to a prisoner exchange. Sadly, not being a party in the exchange, we did not realize its timing before it was too late to cancel without severe inconvenience to other parties.

As the timing is public knowledge, this excuses us only partially.

We are quite willing to arrange for a cease of hostilities for another window that does not coincide with existing plans.

Elsebeth Rhiannon
Diplomat
Electus Matari

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Kybers and Trigs know only the language of destruction, like “boom” and “poof” and “gone”, and it is how you should always talk with them, else they dont understand.

Once again the colors of those who wished to “evacuate”, were substituted for discordant activity in our Domains…

The Convocation permitted us to show mercy to the tainted, yet the Hive-Linkers endavour in Poshlost alternatively to retreiving their own Kindred they wished to protect.

The Troika Derzha will be dispatched to continue efforts to return the Mortified to the Ancient Domains at word of our Discourser.

However their patience is not infinite, nye their tolerance

Kybernauts Sub-Clade
Cellteat

Just to mention, pilot, you weaken a phrase’s meaning if you use it for stuff it doesn’t apply to.

“Hivelinking corruption” is one of the first things the Triglavian Collective checks for when encountering a new entity. This is unsurprising since (1) they seem to have encountered it before, although in the present time it appears to apply only to the style of cybernetic hive-mind used in Sansha’s Nation, and nowhere else.

It is also unsurprising given that (2) they seem to be a little vulnerable to it, to the point of asking the Navka to dispose of an infected frigate rather than doing it themselves. Considering Sansha’s Nation’s presence in the Abyss I hope they’ve set up better countermeasures by now. Haven’t seen any merging of Nation and Trig tech to date, so, that’s good I hope?

Most of the entities I think you’re speaking of as “Hive-Linkers”-- LUMEN, EM, virtually the whole rest of small-E empire space really, consider Nation a … uh. Let’s just say they’re probably up there with you on the list of people we don’t like. I personally will say it plainly and often do: if I’m about to be captured by Nation, please shoot me in the head.

The reason not to use “hivelinking” carelessly like this is twofold. First, in tarring us with the term you are simply in error. We don’t use the tech, and we harbor a healthy suspicion (frequently rising to the level of “shoot on sight”) of those who do.

The “tolerance” for Nation-oriented pilots and such that the Collective seems to object to has more to do with not being able to permanently kill fellow pseudo-immortals and CONCORD’s apparent inability or unwillingness to act against individual capsuleers for such reasons. You should be familiar with the dynamic; you benefit from it yourself. If CONCORD could purge you people, probably it would. As things stand, we can’t get rid of you, you have IGS access among other things, and if you wanted to come along on a Drifter hive operation some time ARC (determinedly neutral entity that it is) might even allow it.

If you’re looking to “know thine enemy,” this isn’t going to help.

Secondly, careless use of the term “hivelinking” blurs the lines between those who are afflicted with actual hivelinking corruption and those who oppose you for other reasons. If you start talking about us all as “hivelinkers” and then the Triglavians start losing a fight with Nation in the Abyss, it’s going to be hilarious watching you try to disentangle the terms again.

“Requesting augmented narodnya of the Ancient Domains to aid the Flow of Virage in extirpation of hivelinking corruption. Glorification awaits.”

“Hivelinking? That’s us, right? Ha! Finally we’re making some progress! Hit 'em hard people!”

Actually there’s probably only one entity in this entire cluster that would be happy to see Nation conquering the Abyss and enslaving Triglavians, and that’s Nation. A request for aid might well be heeded, if only to keep the Collective’s technology out of Sansha Kuvakei’s hundreds of billions of hands.

Maybe try to keep your enemies straight, pilot.

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If this is a separate operation…maybe it should go to a new thread? Thanks.

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I think they’re talking about the aftermath of the first operation, Lasa-- that attempt to smuggle in fighters, most or all of whom were taken alive when the transport carrying them went down.

So, not exactly this specific ARC operation (more like a subversion of same), but, adjacent.

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Indeed it is fortunate the technologies have not morphed, and we continue our sacrifice, our blood & our kin to prevent such.

Those who we’ve encountered committing against us, have been varied, unity of unknown, convergence of those we have not seen together before. Unexpected, and yet, unsurprising of the tainted. Have you flown with the troika’s, you will be aware of the combination of foe’s we face.

All have prevented us from our action for this thread, the Ancient Enemy Azhdazha limit our travels with Hive-Linkers & many more foe’s who seek to corrupt our paths to this goal along the way, although perhaps not all on the same motives & side, all stall our attempts nonetheless in our domain.

Come to our Krai & see for yourself unspoken one.

Kybernauts Sub-Clade Celltear

I do have an appreciation for irony.

We all sacrifice something for our goals along our chosen paths do we not? =)
be it time, ships or blood.

A note, something that makes this even more interesting, is that it’s the Narodna - the human component - of a Troika which is vulnerable to corruption of hivelinking by perverse elements, such as Sansha’s Nation. The log you’re referring to details an event where Nation forces boarded a Triglavian frigate, and “corrupted” the Narodnya. The Koschoi suggested to self-destruct, and the Navka agreed - and so they self-destructed.

The Navka and Koschoi share a body with the Narodnya - it wasn’t some external entity being told to destroy the ship, it was two of the three headmates of the Troika who decided it was the proper course of action~

Cladeships of the 3 tactical troika classification in communion militant of Zembog Subclade of Veles Clade encountered vessels under guidance of hivelinked foreign narodnya at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) while processing in sub-30 exclave of conduit loop construct-477. Invocation of the ancient-time accepted noema of extirpation of hivelinked narodnya proceeded but material realization was unacceptable. Entosis of hivelinked foreign narodnya into body of a 3 tactical troika classification cladeship commenced at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) and corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade. The Koschoi of the tactical troika advised immolation. The Navka consented and invoked immolation at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable).
image–Triglavian Datastream HFN2

The physiology of the Triglav is fascinating - and it deeply saddens me that the widely-known and easily discoverable facts of their people, as well as the process of bioadaption and the status of the people on their world in Pochven, cannot be publicly stated here on the IGS or anywhere else under the control of the powers-that-be - this information quarantine and censorship has become quite tiresome. ((OOC: this is just my idea of how to IC-rationalize the lack of info we have on the trigs :stuck_out_tongue:))

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Hm. That does seem plausible. I’m curious how the “Navka Overminds” fit into this structure, then. They look pretty distinctly like rogue drones, after all, dominix hull and all that.

Also, if only one of the three is “Narodnya”-- human-- and another is “Navka”-- AI-- then what is the nature of the third head, “Koschoi”? Listening to Zorya, two voices sound, at a basic listen, “human-ish,” one male and one female.

The ‘Navka Overminds’ would be ‘Digital Intelligence Overminds’.

Narodyna: human meat-brain/body
Navka: digital intelligence
Koschoi: IIRC, the best guess was some kind of self-aware mutasplasmid brain slug thing?

I’m more than happy to lay out what’s known~

The Triglav race comprises three types of life: the Narodnya, which are human beings (or close to it), the Navka, which seem to be some manner of digitized infomorphic echo, a sort of soul of the dead, and the Koschoi - which we know nearly nothing about.

In the organization of Triglavian civilization, the Navka seem to be the lowest rung on the ladder; they are not considered sapient life in the same was as the others are, according to some information in the Datastreams, but are Triglavian nonetheless. The Navka Overminds are in fact actual Navka in communion with the Drones - that is to say, they seem to be using these drones as bodies.

The Narodnya are the middle element of society, seemingly by far the most numerous - but above them, the Koschoi seem to take some sort of elder role, the highest rung.

All three of these elements come together in “Troika” - an assembly of three minds in one body - which comprise the majority of Triglav anyone fighting them would encounter. Each Triglavian vessel has a “Tactical (Or logistical, strategic, depending on role) Troika Designation” - this number indicating the number of individuals onboard, though if you crack open the hull you’ll find exactly one-third that number of bodies.

Zorya Triglav is a Troika as well. Their female voice is that of the Narodnya, the body. Their robotic voice is most certainly their Navka’s, and the authoritative male voice is undoubtedly their Koschoi.

If the Navka are such a step below the Narodnya, then what in fact are the Koschoi? The only clues we have seem to suggest a perhaps more elevated state of being. Some suppose that they may be a form of free infomorph, etched onto the fabric of spacetime itself and capable of being anywhere - which, given the suggested nature of their communications and data storage, is entirely plausible:

image TRIGLAVIAN HOLOGRAPHIC TRANSCRIBER


This device was recovered from the wreck of a Triglavian Collective invasion vessel and, although the means by which it operates is not fully understood, it appears designed to “transcribe” large amounts of data into spatiotemporal storage using the holographic principle. The startling possibility raised by this device is that the Triglavian Collective stores much of its information in the fabric of spacetime itself and quite possibly in dedicated singularities. This device has a large integrated data buffer.

In comparison, the very physically tied Navka are as much a step below Narodnya as this hypothetical form of the Koschoi is a step above.

Hm. Proposal, based on the senior status of the Koschoi and the apparent tie of the Narodnya to the body: might the Koschoi be in fact a pure human-originated infomorph-- an uploaded human intelligence? A sort of onboard ancestor spirit?

Edit:

Looking back I realize that this is how you’re characterizing the Navka (sorry not to have picked that up before; I was really tired), but … it seems as though there is a place in Triglavian society for AI in the mode of rogue drones? Could the society have made room for both uploaded persons and actual AI?

My impression of the Navka hasn’t been all that, well, “human.” Perhaps it’s because of the role they seem to play as the Overminds, but … are we certain they’re not true AI?

There could be a certain symmetry to the trifecta of beings making up a troika if they were: embodied human intelligence, disembodied once-human intelligence, disembodied never-human intelligence.

I seem to remember in the early days of warclone adoption early prototypes causing a persistent issue of the user experiencing multiple consciousnesses in one body, often leading to a complete psychotic break. They were sequestered, terminated, or phased out into newer iterations of the technology that avoided the issue but a lot of the old timers still have permanent trauma and episodes of disassociation from the experience to this day.

I’m very curious how the Triglavians found a method of overcoming the issues that our kind faced when experiencing multiple consciousnesses, particularly given the fact that as far as we know it was a essentially a duplication error projecting on one warclone mind twice at a time. Comparatively, three consciousnesses seems absurd particularly if this technology is apparently ubiquitous among all members of Triglavian society and potentially being passed on to those annexed into Pochven.

Hivelinked consciousnesses like those adopted within Sansha’s Nation seemingly work by stratifying society into a dominant and submissive caste avoiding much of any ego clash by having the junior slave intelligence’s will completely subsumed by their superior. This, taken with what you’ve said of the Navka and the Koschoi doesn’t bode well for the Navka subject to the will of the Koschoi.

I’m having a hard time conceptualizing this sort of arrangement ever being consensual if that’s the case, but the Collectives utter disdain for the Nation seemingly implies that its methods vary from that of the Nation.

Engagements with Svarog in Skarkon seem to imply the exist in a somewhat post-death society, or at least certain castes within Svarog. Whether that is a warclone-like system of reanimation is unknown. It may also be possible that the Koschoi represents a sort of personal infomorph and the apotheosis of a Triglavian’s shared lives while the “living” consciousness remains semi independent. I based this on… Absolutely nothing but it could explain how ego clash is avoided, and draws potential parallels to Intaki Ida rebirth ceremonies.

Worth knowing, however, that even that application is morally questionable as nothing much ties the original to the infomorph other than them being assigned the intelligence at birth. There are plenty of uncomfortable moral quandaries as to what extent a child in Intaki society can consent to be forever tied to the eternal consciousness of an Ida priest and how much, if at all, the Ida infomorph is anything more than a symbiotic parasite on the host that subsumes the hosts conscious. And don’t even get me started on the gender issue, repeated field studies have proven how traumatic the experience is for infomorph soldiers originally forced to experience gender dysphoria in the field due to the lack of female warclone blanks for the first two generations of clones. That in itself is a massive issue that I’m not sure how the Triglavians have overcome if they play host to a genderless Navka intelligence, the host intelligence, and a potentially different Koschoi intelligence.

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