It would be the journalistic equivalent of “man bites furrier,” which might be a first. The proposition put forward by Maldavius is reasonable on its face. Of course there may be treachery, and everyone may just end up fighting.
But there will be fighting if the offer is rejected, so what would the real purpose of rejecting it be?
Fighting most likely will happen, as long as the fire is not pointed to the transport ships, it is all good.
Freighters get in, dock station, check people for whatever, load people, leave station, leave Pochven
At the same time people are waiting to fire the first shot
Transports left Pochven, everyone shoot each other at will
Before providing an update on the Evacuation efforts, it would seem that certain things need to be addressed as they keep being brought up;
As mentioned before here and after the evacuastion efforts of Vale, a diplomatic solution was sought with multiple representatives from the pro-Triglavian camp. They made it clear that they could not guarantee that the evacuation effort in Vale would not come under attack from pro-Triglavian forces.
We received ongoing warnings that pro-Triglavian forces were planning and preparing to attack the evacuation effort of Vale, even during the actual evacuation. In light of all of this, fleets from other organisations were welcomed with open arms to help protect the evacuation . All involved organisations respected the request to not perform any other operations other then provide defense for the evacuation fleet, while it was active in the system. ARC had made it clear that observers would be welcomed and safe to observe and report their findings. None showed up. If they had, they would have confirmed all of this.
The offer of providing supplies is welcome but will have to be limited to either shuttles or planetary vehicles. We wish to do all we can to avoid any misunderstanding about the intentions of the evacuation fleet.
Let it be known that Stribog still attacked and hunted ARC fleet to such an extend that it no longer was viable to organise them. This was done despite now publicly acknowledging that the ARC fleets were benificial for Pochven and intentionally did not harm Triglavian entities.
Despite this ARC extended an hand and not only was it slapped aside, the war drums were sound and ARC got mocked and ridiculed.
I’m sure that all will understand that ARC has now become wary about the intentions and actions from pro-Triglavian forces.
ARC will accept any and all refugees that are collected by pro-Triglavian entities in Pochven. The evacuation efforts however will still continue as announced as the mass evacuation will be for all of Pochven, not just planets that are under control from Stribog Clade.
Further updates on the details of the mass evacuation efforts will be provide shortly.
Regards,
DutchGunner
(ARC Fleet Commander)
(CONCORD Loyalist)
UPDATE ON THE MASS EVACUATION EFFORTS:
Preparations for the mass evacuation efforts are still ongoing. ARC wished to provide the following updates:
Industrials will have a shuttle and planetary vehicles onboard to help the evacuation efforts. No other goods will be carried and the industrials will be unarmed;
A timetable has been agreed upon for the mass evacuation efforts on the 14th. While it is not great, it is the best that could be achieved considering the conditions and circumstances.
We have prepared the following message to be broadcasted repeatedly within Pochven:
This message is directed at all who currently live or reside in Pochven. If you wish to leave, be advised that a mass evacuation effort is planned for the 14th and 15th of this month.
On the 14th, the evacuation efforts will focus on the planets Otela, Ignebaer, Komo, Sakenta, Arvasaras, Kaunokka, Ichorya, Agnymonne and Archee. On the 15th, evacuation efforts will focus on all other systems in Pochven.
Industrial ships will be waiting for you at the Custom Offices in orbit. Planetary vehicles will be used to help pick up as many people as possible near the available infrastructure to reach the Custom Offices. If there is no Custom Office above the planet; the industrials will enter low orbit and deploy shuttles to pick up people. If you wish to leave Pochven, please be advised of the current timetable for the 14th:
The evacuation fleet will be in Otela, Ignebaer and Komo between 19:30 and 20:30 NEST;
The evacuation fleet will be in Sakenta, Arvasaras and Kaunokka between 20:45 and 21:45 NEST;
The evacuation fleet will be in Ichoriya, Angymonne and Archee between 22:00 and 23:00 NEST;
The timetable for the 15th will be announced within the next 36 hours.
This message is broadcasted on behalf of the Arataka Research Consortium. You have not been forgotten, ignored or abandoned. If you wish to leave Pochven, make use of the upcoming mass evacuation efforts.”
You have to understand, the group you spoke to, TTI, were a mismatched, chaotic collection of individuals from every walk of life, only associating with one another on the common goal of progressing liminality. It was full of terribly unpleasant people of questionable sanity and moral character, many only using the invasions as a chance to sow chaos or bite back at a particular authority.
This is not the case here.
ARC in and of itself is not recognized as a hostile entity. Your fleets, however, did include known anti-Triglavian pilots in armed vessels. The rather aggressive response was because of them, not the Consortium or their admirable goals of both understanding and fighting back against the Drifters and non-conforming automata.
We never stated we would limit our evacuation operations solely to planets under Stribog control. We strive for the safe departure of all who are held here unwillingly. That being said, and upon reviewing your announced methodology, it does not appear that your own efforts on the planets will be coercive or militant in nature, therefore I withdraw any objection to them. However, our stance remains the same. Any fleet found including hostile and armed pilots within their ranks will be treated as hostile in its entirety. As Maldavius offered, we are willing to see you safely through, but we will not tolerate an incursion by hostile forces.
I volunteer as an observer to follow your fleet and ensure everything is in order.
I wonder whether Pochven would be willing to host a branch of the Amarrian Orthodox Church, Sedevacantist.
Si vis pacem, parabellum.
To the pro-Triglavian capsuleers:
Posturing will not scare away those intent on aiding those who you’ve ensured can’t help themselves.
If you desire peace or diplomacy, offer peace or diplomacy. If you offer nothing, the only negotiations you receive will be kinetic.
To you, Miss Elkin:
I look forward to flying with you and all the other pilots who will let their actions speak for them in this coming operation.
-Celeste
Skirmish Fleet Commander, Ambassador to New Eden
Brave Collective
I legitimately cannot tell if you are being callously insincere for the sake of arranging a fight or are just naturally this obtuse. If you want to fight we can arrange that whenever, but can you not do that when innocent lives are on the line? We offered a perfectly reasonable alternative as well as very clear terms regarding the fleet’s escort to ensure our non-intervention, I don’t see what is so disagreeable about them that would warrant the gross waste of human life you would bring about by not co-operating.
So, it’s been openly admitted that the kybernauts are disjointed. How can we even negotiate with one when the other is saying the opposite?
Perhaps they should focus on unifying their causes before they engage in diplomatic negotiations. There are zero assurances here that the transports will be protected from all engaging forces.
Listen, it’s actually very easy. You do not need terms for not shooting civilian flights. You just need to not target lock and not fire. It’s very, very easy.
If you need terms fulfilled so as to refrain from shooting neutral civilian transport, you are in fact not refraining from shooting neutral civilian transport, you are holding them hostage.
Hope this helps!
Was very clearly and explicitly referring to TTI. They disbanded after the conclusion of the invasions.
Couldn’t agree more. Which is why the only objection in place is against known organizations that would see us all killed being around in very much NOT civilian flights, but armed military vessels.
It’s very, very easy.
Then ARC should have no issues piloting our own transports. If this is as you say.
If you read my posts above you would see that I said:
We never had an issue with ARC. Your anti-drifter operations and scietific studies are an invaluable service to New Eden. Our issue is when known and very vocal anti-triglavian pilots run alongside you in armed vessels. This is the only thing that would trigger a hostile response from us.
If you are in that dire need of manpower, I would recommend having any such groups serve as the industrial pilots instead. That would minimize the risk of them splintering off post or mid operation and causing damage.
If such organizations and such vessels are around, then you shoot them, and still not the civilian transports. Seriously.
EDIT: also, you might consider not giving people who want to shoot you a reason to be around in the region, just a few days prior to the operation you do not want to shoot. It looks awfully like you are trying to create the circumstances you object to, otherwise. But dunno, maybe that’s just me.
I would certainly hope to do so, but I am not a fleet commander myself, and any such non-uniform fleet runs the risk of innocent parties being caught in the crossfire. I would rather not endanger innocent lives by having a battle while they sit precariously in a lightly armored transport.
Would you decline Tribe and mercenary aid in the face of Drifter intervention?
Sounds awful lot like “Nice transport ship, it would be a shame if something happened to it” to me.
Of course not, though unless ARC is willing to field dedicated counter-drifter forces, their primary strike weapons might pose a significant risk. It might be more prudent to focus on logistical support and survivability, with anti-tackle forces to assist in escapes should a significant drifter force attack.
I would personally advise people stop engaging at this point. They speak and represent no one in an official capacity, they cannot legitimately offer reasonable terms with diplomatic guarantee but demand in kind from others all the same. They can pound sand for all anyone should care.
They offered not only support to the transport operation, but gift-wrapped it
As if one could negotiate with capsuleers as a single entity. By this logic, no diplomatic agreement could ever be achieved with capsuleers since they are fractured in different Alliances.
The main point of disagreement, under my perspective, seems to be the entrance of (heavily) armed forces under their territory.
If an armed Amarr relief fleet decided to bring food and medicine to the residents of Flosewin, would the Minmatar Militia open their way and their hearts to it without doubt or reservation?
The offer is not only an invitation to ARC, but handing out the refugees in a way that does not expose the industrial ships to (un)known violent parties (they will be secure in the station aka not getting shot in space), ARC can make every sort of test/checking on the people before they enter the ships (to avoid any suspicion of foul play), and then get out safely to deal with the mass of forced migrants and their realocation.
And that is the point where the all parties involved wonder if that is not a rescue operation, but an armed incursion with a side of rescue operation.
Aid whom exactly?
Of all the possible moments in existance, every interested k-space armed ships decided to converge at that point of space at that point of time simultaneously? Why not make it a little asynchronous, so things don’t get mixed up?
And capsuleers can?
None of you are obtuse people and i have admiration for some of you.
If one enters a bank, asks for their money, gets the money handed over and leave, it is called a withdrawal
If one enters a bank, takes their money away and leave, it is not a withdrawal and will generate a response.
If one enters a bank with guns, shoot everyone, take their money away and leave, it will generate an even bigger response.
But it’s mah money
Yes, and it is being handed over to you. No need to shoot the clerk in the face while it is being handed over
Is the primary objective a demonstation of power from K-space, a power that can be used to get somewhere and take what it wants? (Hi Amarr mode operation).
The transportation from A to B has been dealt with with an offer that is win-win to all parties involved.
The invitation to proving is always open
No need for both to happen at the same time
What exactly is the big issue regarding the transportation from A to B, once the evacuated people are waiting in a station and accounted for?