No, but I kind of hope we’d mostly concentrate on shooting the Amarr warships rather than the civilians.
So, if Minmatar Republic goes and conquers an Amarr system, the length of time we have to hold it is eight months, after which time it is “our territory”, and Amarr entering the system becomes a hostile act? So noted.
All that said; all this haggling is over “but what if someone who is hostile to us shows up?” The kybernauts want assurances from ARC that this won’t happen, which ARC obviously cannot give, because they are not in control of said forces. At the same time as asking for such, the exact same kybernauts start a shooting war with EM, one such entity, which brings our warships to Pochven, where they have not really had any presence for several months.
One cannot help but wonder about this. Asking for assurances for something you are at the same time working against? In which universe does this not smell like a trap?
Did you know a cubic foot of construction grade sand can absorb up to 85% of a standard kinetic projectile’s energy? I think this calls for further research
The offer of the trade happening in a station provides the concrete invulnerability to the industrial ships for the transfer, rather than being exposed to anyone with a happy trigger finger in space.
My wording was not adequate. Allow me to expose it in a different manner.
“under the territory they currently have de facto control, regarding a temporary cooperation to the specific objective of transporting people from point A (Pochven) to point B (K-space)”
If that is still not enough, please let me know so i can further elaborate why the point was not about who is the “actual owner of said space depending on the time it has it under control”. (Caldari Prime, Heth and all that)
I have no knowledge of the backroom diplomatic discussions, so i do not know of assurances being asked for, but what has been publicly offered was “We will collect the civilans, we will get them to a station, we will offer them to you, we will help you get in if you have any trouble” (if i understand correctly getting out is easier than getting in)
To let the transport ships orbiting around free floating in space is something that jeopardizes the civilians and the operation, not only due to hostile elements from whatever side, but to natual events and even unatural ones.
It is safer to get everyone in one heavily protected spot rather than picking small batches in an exposed manner. (Something that will be used as a propaganda piece for both sides. “Look at the mean Trigs shooting a civilian ship” or “Look at the K-space savages, coming to Pochven just to shoot their peers and us”)
“Assurances” in this case is that no one but themselves are supposed to do anything like this, and that they and they alone are trusted to actually help civilians in a fair manner.
Remember that these are the same people who have supported Svarog’s careless murder and Perun’s concentration camps. And now people are just supposed to trust them when they say “honestly that’s all who wanted out”, and not organize for collection lines independent from them, even if riskier?
I am not going to put in another Amarr/Minmatar metaphor here, I am sure you can invent it yourself.
If the issue at hand is the protagonism and verification of the process, would the offered Observation position be enough to integrate the actions and make the process smooth for all parties involved?
Why is it that when it comes to “Diplomatic assurance” they can’t speak for the Collective, but when it is about atrocities from the Collective they could totally have done something about it?
I do not know who is asking for complete trust to the point of be at someon elses mercy, and i would kindly puch that person in the face to even suggest it.
All that i am saying is that there can be an exchange that does not involve the security shooting each other like an action holovid. A lot of those exchanges happen daily between parties that do not trust each other and they all live to to business (or turf wars) another day.
The inability to see difference between active support of a party committing atrocities and the inability stop said atrocity tells me this discussion does not need to continue.
I represent myself, and i am “meddling” (thanks Aria) in it because i would really like a solution that involves transporting the civilians that do not want to be in Pochven, to K-space in a way that does not involve them getting there in black plastic bag, like some of our capsuleer peers enjoy doing.
The last operation killed a bunch, doing the same thing expecting different results is not very productive.
(And the one where one of the Clades killed the convoy that i am not finding right now)
Those are pretty drastic accusations that this operation hasn’t been planned properly. It stands to reason we would not openly publish opsec information on GalNet.
I highly recommend if you have any pertinent input, you contact Dutch directly.
Your ‘meddling’ as you put it, isn’t help anyone’s cause.
The Collective will prove the direction of your flow on their own; but as for the kybernauts of Pochven, we see you and your hated rivals as two sides of the exact same coin. Our concern is the strength of the Collective and the security of Pochven, not your Amarrian exegesis.
Oh, I don’t know about that. I’ve quite appreciated her contributions. Like this one:
Ms. Tsukiyo isn’t the only one troubled by the “guilt by association.” Moreover, it’s pretty clear that Ms. Rhiannon is referring specifically to Stribog Clade, seeing as we are the ones who made the offer to evacuate stranded civilian narodnya out of Pochven. In other words, she accuses Stribog Clade of “support[ing] Svarog’s careless murder and Perun’s concentration camps. . .”
That’s the kind of accusation that requires proof.
Pochven is an incredibly dangerous place. Even with our best efforts there are daily Drifter and Drone invaders in these systems. If your mission is to succeed without loss the best way to do so will be to rely on us.
Many of you may have disagreements with our methods but we know our home better than anyone and I assure you that your assets will make it safely to our citadel. Routing will need to take place through a single local wormhole. We can scout the way prior to this operation. I recommend doing this without the use of filaments. They can be highly unstable and will lead to complications.
My statement still stands and is intended for ARC as a public record of our offer. As you are a part of ARC do you find our terms acceptable so that we may move forward with the agreement?
We would rather have a public record of any agreement. This prevents misunderstanding as everyone can see what was discussed and proposed. We don’t intend to break our agreements or give any perception that an agreement has been broken. Discussing details in private afterwards is acceptable to remove any operational issues.
As such I will restate our offer.
We will collect refugees from each inhabited planet we control.
We will then place them in the Triangular Trading Tower in Wirashoda.
You may bring your fleet and collect them in a good faith trade.
We will arrange passage into Pochven for your forces to make this trade.
I will not accept any agreement until details are discussed privately. If you’re refusing, that is your choice. As it stands, this ‘agreement’ as you put it is one-sided.
To clarify, this is not a refusal on my part, however, you clearly do not understand how diplomacy works.
You are correct. It is entirely one-sided in that we are doing everything possible to abide by your request. We are also taking into account the danger your fleet will be in and making arrangements to mitigate that. We are also managing the scouting and wormhole manipulation required to make this possible.
Diplomacy is the art of dealing with others in a sensitive and effective way. It’s about meeting in the middle to accomplish a goal that works for all parties. We have met you more than half way and yet you refuse to commit. What specifically does ARC gain by keeping these refugees lives in limbo?