[ARC] Large and Heavily Damaged Drifter Fleet Encountered in Hive Complex

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Teinyhr

Well, if they do consider Drifters a particularly worrying enemy, they should be doing that. Can’t rely on fickle independent capsuleers for everything.

Well-- maybe, but, are we really in a position to second-guess?

If they weren’t satisfied with a bunch of fickle independent capsuleers, they could do just as you suggest, at pretty much any time. As it is, it seems like they’re okay with leaving “provoking the Drifters” to fickle people who can pretty much melt away into the inchoate mass of heavily-armed privateers at will.

So, maybe they’re satisfied? Or, satisfied enough?

(By the way, if you look back to the start of the Drifter crisis about three years ago and check the faces and voices involved-- well, there’s definitely some turnover. But, some are still the same, you know? People come and go. Institutions come and go. But not all of them.)

[Teinyhr]

@Aria_Jenneth

(By the way, if you look back to the start of the Drifter crisis about three years ago and check the faces and voices involved-- well, there’s definitely some turnover. But, some are still the same, you know? People come and go. Institutions come and go. But not all of them.)

By fickle independent capsuleers I was trying to illustrate that completely outsourcing ones defence to notoriously unloyal sociopaths is hardly a good idea. If I was leading an interstellar empire, and found Drifters a credible threat to my empire, I would be preparing my own armies for the eventuality that they would have to conted with them, not expect that a completely outside force would come to my aid.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Hm. So …

… first, there was a time I was scared I really might be a sociopath. Maybe I was just playing at feeling empathy, lying, even to myself. I’m not so worried about that anymore. Human beings have a really unfortunate way of broadly disregarding the needs of those beneath them. In general, the higher-placed a person is, the fewer people they tend to feel a lot of empathy for.

We show this quality in a big way. But not necessarily more than, like, old aristocrats from various cultures, who used to play with people’s lives in similar ways.

About the advisability of using us, as fickle beings … it’s interesting: if you look at us individually, you’re totally right; loyalists, to any empire, are an exception, not a rule. If you look at us collectively, though … it’s strange. We’re like some sort of fluid substance that gets all over, and typically destroys what it touches, but its movements can be predictably influenced with the offer of reward. Some rewards are “naturally occurring” (we ain’t never gonna leave Anoikis, I don’t think, not until the Sleeper artifacts stop flowing or become worthless somehow); others exist because they’re purposefully placed to attract us towards a target (bounties on pirates, rewards for service with a faction).

Nullsec alliances might look like an exception, but actually I think they’re as consistent about this as any of us: they’ve refined exterminating pirate fleets to an industry.

Taken as a group, we’re like a utility: hot and cold running murder.

We’re not getting paid much to investigate the Drifters, but we’re not getting dissuaded from it, either. It seems like that implies that this level of response is about what’s desired. Maybe that’ll change, though, depending on what happens next.

[Corraidhin_Farsaidh]

@Aria_Jenneth

We’re not getting paid much to investigate the Drifters, but we’re not getting dissuaded from it, either. It seems like that implies that this level of response is about what’s desired. Maybe that’ll change, though, depending on what happens next.

Perhaps CONCORD are using our predictability to test the Drifters without having to publicly get their hands dirty. This way if it all goes horribly wrong they can point and shout at the capsuleers. If they need us to do more they can just dip into the bounty wallet and make it rain.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Pretty much the thought, yeah. Although I expect it might be less about public perception and more about making sure that if the Drifters do retaliate hard (but not against our whole society comprehensively), it won’t be CONCORD or a national navy that gets hit first.

[Nomistrav]

It is not worth answering this array of questions any longer when it is apparent that the answers are being ignored. One does not say, “You did not answer my questions” unless they are making it clear that the answers do not fit within the parameters of the questioner’s confirmation bias. This goal post will continue to move, despite mountains of evidence being given from CONCORD’s medals and standing increases for shooting Drifters, to Rogue Drone analogies, to outright showing every instance of violence the Drifters have committed themselves in the assassination of Jamyl and the attack on the Amarr empire, as well as other nations’ fleets.

This thread should be locked to spare the world of having to read nearly five hundred posts of logical fallacies and ludicrous conjecture being used to make controversy where there is none.

[Aria_Jenneth]

Eh … respectfully, sir, there’s no need to say the other side’s perspective is without value. There might be good reason for skepticism-- I wonder, myself, a lot, whether we’re doing the right thing. And, it’s possible to take even the right thing too far, since it can be hard to spot the place where you needed to shift course.

So, honest, thoughtful criticism’s not a bad thing. It’s helpful. It doesn’t even have to be purely rational (are there any of us who are?) or totally well-informed (it’s hard to learn without making mistakes) to be worthwhile.

The people I’ve decided aren’t helpful, I just don’t engage with anymore. But if criticism just disappears, I don’t think that’ll be a good thing, either.

[Arrendis]

@Nomistrav

This thread should be locked to spare the world of having to read nearly five hundred posts of logical fallacies and ludicrous conjecture

As long as the ‘actually interesting’ Amarr thread remains open at twice the size, this statement is ludicrous on its face.

[Shibbla_Cendri]

@Aria_Jenneth

Eh … respectfully, sir, there’s no need to say the other side’s perspective is without value. There might be good reason for skepticism-- I wonder, myself, a lot, whether we’re doing the right thing.

The only measurable contributions to this whole recent pro-Drifter controversy are the piles of burning Drifter debris floating in Sirppala presently.

And I am looking forward to contribute further to the pile in the coming days.

[Teinyhr]

@Nomistrav

CONCORD’s medals

I’m curious, by the way, what is the citation given with the medals? Because, you know, some militaries offer medals for such daring feats as good behaviour.

[Arrendis]

Doesn’t look to be a citation, only a description:

An official Note of Merit from CONCORD’s powerful Inner Circle, this document comes complete with a Neural Interface Chip coded to the recipient of the award and capable of broadcasting their status for all law-abiding citizens to see.

[Nomistrav]

You are certainly not wrong, Madam Jenneth. Only the voices of criticism are slim, and overshadowed by the loudly vocal contrarians. A dissuading voice of reason could potentially allow us to see something that we have overlooked. However, poor logic and dismissive tone will not, and that seems to have taken on a majority among the group. Out of the lot, @Teinyhr seems to be the only one even trying, and for that she has my respect.

[Alderson_Point]

I am slowly coming to the conclusion that the “Drifters” are simply devices, although highly sophisticated biological devices, under the full control of an external agency. This Agency May be connected to the sleeper enclaves, their caretakers, talocan, or others unknown agents.

They may be the good guys, But they have acted as a potential existential threat, and It is not unreasonable to react to that impression, that they have NEVER tried to avoid giving.

We may discover that they are in fact misunderstood, and may become a valuable ally (or at least their controller may) against greater threats still to be identified.

But until then we are totally justified in NOT trusting their good intentions when our experience has been the opposite, and reacting accordingly.

Should the facts change, I am completely willing to reevaluate my actions and prejudices, we could always use more allies, no matter how unlikely they may appear to be.

[Aria_Jenneth]

@Alderson_Point

This Agency

Is that an intentional reference to “The Agency,” sir?

[Alderson_Point]

It wasn’t entirely intentional, but in retrospect, one may have suspicions of their involvement.

[Veskin_Sentinel]

So… According to your report, miss Cendri, The Drifters at the gate, in High Security space, on the major trade route, did not fire their doomsday/superweapon. We can dismiss the rumors for CONCORD intervention as much as we want, but the fact is present - they used their normal weaponry only.

I got another question: Miss Priano, or any other capsuleer that fights the Drifters in Anoikis, can you confirm that the drifters are still using their doomsday weapons in wormhole space, be it in the special wormhole systems where they usually guard their hives, or anywhere else in Anoikis? I mean, if you have penetrated the Drifter hives in wormhole space, after the strange timebase experiment conducted by CONCORD some time ago.

We still got just rumors of CONCORD intervention, but I am trying to figure out if there is really something done by someone, to prevent their superweapons from firing. And if they are not compromised in Anoikis, then it will be clear that something in known space, has influence on the Drifters.

To me it looks like Drifters have a new enemy, that is even too powerful for them to handle. I wish we get some more clear answers.

[Valkarth_Tlakotani]

As a minor operator for an Amarr holder I have been refining hunting expeditions to entertain clients of noble birth
This drifter development is a minor concern as I work on the Farel estate and am mostly free of space encounters.
I do however have a question, that is what is found once drifters are defeated, is it a used capsuleer corpse, or are they primarily drone? If no corpses are found it seems they might not use our biomass for piloting.

[Makoto_Priano]

The consensus to date is that the Drifter cadavers are of Sleeper or Jovian stock. Given the extensive cybernetic enhancement, however, and that Drifters appear to be coming from locations in wormhole space in some way firewalled from the areas we’d encountered before, we are uncertain as to whether the Drifters are Sleeper infomorphs, artificial infomorphs, or something else beside.

Additionally, pilots!

Following some intelligence, we identified a Drifter fleet engagement in Nourvukaiken. An approximately 30-strong Drifter fleet was engaged by capsuleer broadcaster ‘BjornBee,’ Bjornson Thellere, and approximately fifty or sixty freelance Capsuleers in destroyers.

Camera drone footage indicates that these Drifters were, actually, more intact than prior fleets, but completely lacked any facility for shield generation. Review of footage will continue to verify whether any Doomsdays were fired. However, it does indicate Drifter IFF systems again failed after approximately a minute of heavy engagement.

[Makoto_Priano]

Drifters were engaged in force in Isanamo. Novel trinary data vaults were recovered from the wreckage.

Processing is on-going by specialists while combat personnel route to the next Drifter influx.

[Jandice_Ymladris]

To add to this, me, Unholy ghost & Stig Elendil have attempted to get a non-hostile response with them in various ways, from flying odd ships to carrying various interesting items with us, sometimes even jettisoning them for the Drifters to pick up.
Alas, no response came, beside their scanning, which they do on everyone.