Drifter Interactions And Relations

For the longest time since my first foray into the greater whole of New Eden, since the day I truly became a Capsuleer among thousands of others… I had one nagging thought at the back of my mind, an incomplete section of grey matter that was not yet filled with electrical activity, a lack of information among a filled library of information and experience.

I didn’t know enough about the Drifters.

And this to me was a grave sin.

I am a creator, through various mediums, I analyse, dissect, and discern information, and with it, I make something of it.

By this I mean I love to learn, and make things with that knowledge. It could be anything, for any purpose, only to the end that it helps people, and seems remotely fascinating to somebody other than myself.

I used this to create land vehicles before, and during the DUST mercenary times, and from this I translated these skills into ship design and fitting.

It has served me well, and it is what ultimately got me into the Capsuleer program.

So to my surprise, after having my first clone activated, and being sent to the State Naval Academy, our convoy is slaughtered by a threat I had never dared to imagine. Not in my wildest dreams as a child, hearing of Sansha incursions as a bedtime story to get me to behave, not in my nightmares consumed by horrible beasts, not in my faintest of thoughts about the true power of the mythic Jovian people.

No. This threat was given form. It was like gazing upon the face of an enemy that could not be understood, technology more advanced and powerful than anything we could hope to muster, and an intelligence… with motives that could only spell out our demise in the most destructive way by the laws of the universe.

It was after waking up and having to flee from those shrouded ships with a mind to kill me on sight that I made a decision.

I would understand them. I would do so that I may learn their identities, their motives, their technology, and with that, I would destroy them.

Perhaps not annihilate them completely, I later thought, but rather ensure they would no longer do to others what was done to me, and my friends.

I and my friends have lost much to these things, and nary a word was spoken to us.

CONCORD has tried many times to speak with them, to subject them to the local law, which they have broken many times.

We have tried to get a response from them to say something. Anything.

Nothing.

No more.

What I am going to suggest is insane, and suicidal. A plan no intelligent, self-preservative man or woman would undertake, unless in the most dire of times.

Now is that time.

I propose to the people of New Eden, that we do not declare war on the Drifters, but rather contain their systems in Anoikis, and sit on them until they cry “Uncle”.

They enter and leave through unique wormholes which house their only known Hives, five unique sites which have been raided and replenished more times than I can count.

Instead we should capture each system, one by one, and let them decide to either force us out, which we will return in force as a response, or decide to speak, at which we will listen, and cease hostilities.

We will not fire upon them first, but we will respond with all manner of weapons fire if they attempt to purge us.

We will wait inside their five realms, with as many as we can muster, a swarm of frigates and destroyers, pests which they cannot hope to completely eradicate, and we will insist upon being a pest and a pain until they decide to speak.

I hope that it can be done, because I fear that whatever they want, they will get it if we sit idly any longer. They have the means to take it if they chose. But they haven’t yet. So either they’re waiting for something…

…or someone to come by.

I intend to be that person.

But enough of my ramblings. I must hear another’s thoughts on the matter.

-EDIT-

We are now focusing on means to garter attention of the Drifters in an attempt to communicate with them in a peaceful manner.

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Uh … respectfully, pilot, if you’re going to be entering areas they care about, you’ll come under fire from both Drifter and Sleeper forces. If you’re in corvettes they’ll probably make kind of short work of you, and at some point probably the Drifters will also go after your pods. It’s not like they seem to show a lot of respect for human life. You’ll be feeding them biomass.

More to the point I kind of doubt you’ll have a lot of luck getting many people to join in a project of basically sitting and waiting to be killed by a Drifter.

It might be more productive to contact ARC and see how you can help out?

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Operation: Free Corpses for the Drifters.

Kidding aside, I agree that diplomacy with the Drifters is an admirable goal but in my experience they prefer action to words, decisive and devastating action which seems to indicate their interest in collecting corpses and defending Anoikis from capsuleer incursion.

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Perhaps corvettes are not the best we can provide; I wrote that while venting a little. The idea is we take a fleet of small, agile ships that are of very little loss, and are easily provided for. If we get blown up, we get into another ship and keep going.

If they kill us, our allies scoop our bodies and keep track of our losses.

Admittedly it has a lot of unknowns and risks involved, and we could very well be helping them by giving them form.

But in order to get their attention, we have to do something that directly interferes with their operations, and clogging up their front door with possible cadavers might seem at first a tasty proposition, when they refuse to leave and they waste your resources coming back and stealing the bodies from you, you’d either try to slaughter them all or try something else.

I am seeing to it that I inform as many people as possible that I am going to sit in their wormholes and shoot down anything that tried getting a little too friendly with my clone, and disrupting their entry and exit from these places, making their active Drifter agents in New Eden (relatively) vulnerable and cut off from support.

But it doesn’t really have to be corvettes and frigates alone. Just whatever can best harass them without being costlier than is worth replacing on a venture like this.

That’s partially what this is for. By occupying their territory and de ying any incoming resources from New Eden or reinforcements for the New Eden wanderers, Apollo and Artemis, we can then hunt them down in New Eden while they are clogged in Anoikis, and clear the New Eden front. That should be action enough to make them stop.

I will also add that many others have wished me the best of luck in this venture, because like myself they are sick and tired of Drifters wandering about and being the boogyman for the most powerful human force in all of history.

We shape New Eden and these damnable Drifters are walking over us. I care not for my pride, but for the prides and securities of others?

They have crossed a line with me, by indirectly declaring guerilla warfare, and they didn’t have the common courtesy of telling us why.

I will get to the bottom of this. And if not me, then another who comes from this movement.

They admire strength? Let’s show them why we are the eternal.

Without speaking as to the general venture, my understanding is that wormhole occupation is a remarkably time-intensive and manpower-intensive venture. I’d recommend starting with a single system to establish capability, and build from there.

If you’re looking to use a disposable destroyer doctrine, some of the Safizon fighting was achieved using Coercers as the destroyer bed. I’d also, naturally, recommend that you trial this in the Redoubt Hive, as the nearby Wolf-Rayet will serve your ships’ systems well.

Best of luck storming the Hive!

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@Makoto_Priano You were just the individual I was hoping to see. So it seems the general consensus is I cannot be passive with this effort. And after review and deliberation with my better and more experienced friend, Lee, he has come to the same conclusions as you. Like you suggest, complete occupation is difficult, but the reason I suggest that we take and hold all five systems is because once this kicks off, it is going to rouse them from whatever relaxed floating they’re doing, and I can be sure that if we were to focus efforts on a single system, while more practical, is not going to be easy. I can almost guarantee that the Drifters are going to reinforce Redoubt, if we tried to take it, and that would not be preferable.

To make this happen, we need to capture each system without destroying their Hives, as it would prompt them to build them again, and it ultimately defeats the purpose of the occupation. If we are to do this system by system, we have to claim the “airspace” and lock down any small sites or enclaves where Drifters or their Sleeper allies could by staying. Then we lock down the hive, and plan to take the next Hive. I only have two problems in doing this:

1: I need manpower, and being a solo individual without any ties to another corporation (unless you count friends, but their numbers are not enough) means I have to ask other groups to dedicate their time to this effort. There in lies the second problem.

2: Who in their right mind would help out a pilot who has no power, no promises of a monetary reward, no promises of loot, nothing? I can’t pay for this, it can only be done for the science, and the need to progress with understanding the Drifters, and how to communicate with them. I was applying for your corporation, not to long ago, but I have yet to hear a response, yes or no. I would think out of everyone, you would be the best suited to handle this. You and your kin know the Drifters best, and if I remember correctly, you and your alliance have been at the center of many great events, one of which cost the life of Hilen Tukoss, Virtues rest his soul.

I’m taking the risk of death to these things, just to get one word out of them, but as far as I know, people are pissed with the Drifters, but we don’t have enough of them to aid me. They exist, I know they do, but they aren’t speaking up, or are not listening.

It’s like having the solution, but you can’t fulfill it because you don’t have the resources to make it happen.

I am open to suggestions, and tweaks to this plan. It will happen, I will make it so or die trying, but I need your thoughts.

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@Makoto_Priano @Aria_Jenneth @Persephone_Alleile @Lunogryz_Kostoglotov @mozgoklyuy_mozgoklyuy

I will be making an official memorandum for the operation, and it will include specific rules of engagement, tactics, and protocol, especially for each system, starting with the Anoikis system of J174618, otherwise known as Redoubt.

I invite you to continue responding, as we will discuss the formal RoE, first for the greater goals of O.O.A. (pronounced as ooh-ah), and later for the battle plan of Stage 1: Redoubt Rejoinder (otherwise referred to as the Redoubt Front).

I do intend to go through with this, and my earlier venting aside, I will think this through as best I can, but I need others to help provide insight. I can not hope to do this alone, and even if you are not interested in participating in this engagement, I do suggest you point others this way.

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I’m definitely interested in seeing what progress you make.

My own policy regarding the Drifters is to give them a wide berth. They’ve never caused me any trouble, and while their motives remain hidden I can’t help but feel like we brought them upon ourselves through our silent war on the Sleepers and the reverse engineering of their technology, something I have participated in myself. I have no idea if my intuition is correct on this and the stony silence of the Drifters allows one’s imagination to run wild.

Opening diplomatic channels with the Drifters would be an ideal outcome, but that may just be wishful thinking. The Drifters haven’t shown any sign that they are open to diplomacy and the Empire is unlikely to forgive what they did to Empress Jamyl. All signs point to an increase in hostilities on the horizon.

I’m also just one pilot and as I mentioned I am hesitant to engage the Drifters directly, but if you need a scout with plenty of experience in Anoikis I would be willing to help.

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While I have my own theory about the Drifter’s emergence - and your line of thought aligns with that theory - I can say that normally I would leave them alone. However, I will occasionally enter wormholes and go Sleeper hunting, as their data centers and remaining components are not only monetarily valuable, but have a personal value to myself for reasons I don’t feel are necessary to divulge.

I would agree with you on leaving the damn things alone, but they are simply too dangerous to allow in known space without getting more information about their motives and goals. Not only have they broken many CONCORD laws, tey have committed a war crime by murdering the Emperess, and stealing her corpse.

I want to occupy their territory as a means of not only forcing diplomacy, but for informally arresting the individuals responsible for not only Jamyl’s murderer, bit for Tukoss, and so many others who were a little more fortunate of waking up in their clones.

I understand the concern, and it is well founded, but I appreciate the attempt for providing a madman with cannon fodder.

I jest. I know this is not easy, and it won’t be easy, but if we are to get some reaction out of them, we must force the issue. Since you have volunteered your services, you will be added to the roster of O.O.A. agents, and your rank within it has been upgraded to command status. You are now able to formulate the specifics for the memorandum, and the RoE. You now can help determine the way we face this threat.

Currently, the first goal of occupation is twofold:

1: Suppress Drifter and Sleeper activity in all five Hive systems.

2: Restrain the locals from further operations and aggression and incite communication between us and the Enemy.

The second goal is less vital, but may provide insight into the nature of the Enemy. It is as follows:

1: Complete and unrestricted study of the sites inside the Hive systems. This includes usage of Entosis Links on all manner of technology, including the Hive itself, in an attempt to breach defenses and allow for invasive study into the Drifter electronic systems.

2: Capture of multiple active Drifter and Sleeper specimens by means of extensive electronic warfare to render them inoperable, and conducting invasive studies - and interrogation if at all possible - of the Sleeper drones, Drifter Battleship systems, and capture of Drifter infomorphs possessing an active humanoid body. With permission from ARC, all specimens, prisoners and samples will be delivered via convoy to Site One for containment.

Of course I will expand upon it more, but this covers the basics. Any questions?

-EDIT-

https://forums-archive.eveonline.com/message/5913784/

Considering the goal is to occupy the territory, it would help to have a map, wouldn’t it?

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Ah, those old things! They’re still largely accurate, though the gate locks have failed in all cases, so you won’t need to worry about hacking. It’s also worth noting that it doesn’t include the nexus anomaly, which is accessible via acceleration gates in either the ‘split’ or the ‘hive’ zone. Additionally, for total system lockdown, each hive system will have five anomalies with various points of interest that you’ll want to explore. That’ll put you to eighteen distinct zones in each hive system.

As for transporting specimen to Site One, well, while we now have the Burreau Memorial Laboratory in the Eram system, we’re not specifically associated with the Arek’jalaan effort or Site One. What’s more, I’m not sure we’d even know how to contain an active Sleeper or Drifter specimen, unless you’re somehow talking about peeling a Drifter meatpuppet out of the ship. In that case, well-- I assume a well-padded room with no capsule-compatible I/O ports would do the trick.

To be frank, it’s not something we’ve considered, seeing as usually we just destroy any Drifter we come across, with a few exceptions dictated by operational needs.

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Ah. I was not aware of this. I had an understanding that Site One was accessable for all means, and I also forgot that as a location for Arek’jalaan, the program has been shut down. Hm.

By Sleeper specimens, I mean that if they are purely drone, no true intelligence (compared to a Drifter infomorph, anyway) then harvesting their central cores and any vital technology straight from the source without subjecting it all to gunfire might make it more profitable in terms of research materials. Hell, if we could get a mobile dock next to the damn thing and keep it still long enough, we could shut it down and completely strip it for parts, repackage it, if you will.

Unless we find some kind of infomorph inside the Sleeper drone, in which case we may have another clue.

And as for the Drifter, I don’t mean we take it while it is inside the DBS. That’s insane. No, we’d take the “meatpuppet” out and lock it in solitary confinement, one from each unique Drifter BS variant for comparisons, at which point we will do to the ships what we would do to the drones, strip them bare, and repackage them for all we can.

I would imagine we would have to peel both shield layers off and the armor, and hit the hull with a salvager to get a boarding party onboard to take the pilot captive. While it is jammed and snared and neuted with everything we have. I would not take chances.

The reason I suggested Site One is after we take the smug pilot out of his seat, assuming there aren’t critical life support systems that have to be on when the ship is, and it doesn’t die upon removal, we could face retaliation unlike anything else if the rest of its kin figure out were taking prisoners of war. They might not want us to keep their own, let alone living, if the interrupted autopsy was any indication of how far they would go.

Wherever we put these things, they have to be far away, and secure beyond belief. Somewhere they can’t touch.

That aside, any thoughts on using an Entosis Link on Redoubt’s sites and the Hive itself? Considering Relic and Data Analyzers don’t work on most of them - unless you tried to brute force the code - so I don’t see many alternatives.

We dive or get nothing new.

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I love how Come Lately here has come up with “a plan.”

Based on no operational experience. Based on nothing but unicorn farts and rainbows.

Yawn.

Hope is not a method, and wishes are not plans.

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They have wormhole generators. They vaporized an Avatar in a single shot. When they attacked CONCORD over the last corpse, they brought less firepower than they used to kill Sarum. That was them asking nicely.

If you want to maintain a constant presence in the Drifter hives, you need all your pilots to be capable of not dying. To do so long term means you’re going to need to employ the kind of builds SERAPH uses, and you’re going to need to have enough people in those kinds of builds to ensure operational capability against 1-4 Drifters at all times.

By the way, if you have 2-5b in relatively specialized builds, sitting in easily located positions (ie: the Hives) in each of these hive systems all the time, you can probably expect that Drifters aren’t going to be the chief of your worries. You, not they, will be the ‘loot pinata’ to stir wider interest. And there are plenty of groups both in J-space and in null territories with Observatories, that will come hunting you… just because you’re a reliable target.

Put simply: What you’re proposing would be the concerted effort of a group significantly larger than any that is currently specializing in Drifter operations (with the possible exception of the Sisters of Eve). If you want to set high aspirations, that’s great, but get yourself a hel of a lot of operational experience with these things, their Hives, and their capabilities, before you even begin down that road… and then start building your numbers. You’ll need them.

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Excuse me, @Alizabeth_Vea.

If you are intending to add to this stream by providing tactical data and experience, I welcome it. But insulting my Alpha status is neither kind, nor productive, and I suggest you find another stream to monitor.

At least @Arrendis is much more helpful.

Yes, it is a big undertaking, and perhaps it is bigger than I can handle, but need I remind this stream that I did say that if I did not stare down the Drifters, somebody else will?

In short, even if this plan comprised of “unicorn farts” is impractical, even if I am a fool to believe true occupation can be achieved, the whole reason this forum exists is to spark conversation about how the defeat of the Drifters could be done.

If occupation is not the way, and daily raids of their facilities yields no results other than a fewer Drifters and Sleepers, given their tenacity to rebuild the Hives - which are outposts, not central command structures from which the Drifters govern and direct action - then what is the way? Because if we let them, they will trample us underfoot with weapons that bend space-time and the endless hunger to convert our dead and dying into more of themselves.

What truly is the solution?

Because unless you can provide evidence and an example of your plan in action, I will continue to work towards finding the solution if nobody else is offering ideas.

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Ah … Ali (the SERAPH fleet commander) can be a little direct in her way of speaking. The Drifter conflict is also something really personal to her, and her ultimate intention is their extinction, so you might have both pricked her pride and proposed a desired outcome she wouldn’t find acceptable.

There is something concrete we might all be able to do, though. There’s a feat we’ve never tried to accomplish, and that would probably take all three existing Drifter-hunting entities plus probably a pile of outside support to manage: running all five Hives simultaneously, to see whether they affect each other in any way.

It’s something I’d like to see done. And the numbers would still be way less than what you’d need to actually gum all the Hives up lastingly.

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Just sayin’, if you guys usher in the actual god damned apocalypse with your quite literal poking of the hives, I swear I’ll write a very sternly worded letter. On the other hand, I’ve also been told “I told you so.” is in the top ten list of things that are likely to be my dying words, so I guess I should be giving these somewhat barbaric ventures a thumbs up or something.

Just make it very abundantly clear that it’s you sods doin’ it, and not the rest of us. Maybe they’ll take note.

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I don’t know what’s more funny: that you believe I owe you kindness, or that you think I am going to turn over my doctrines and tactics to someone that hasn’t done ■■■■ during this whole war.

I mean, you don’t even know who the ■■■■ I am.

Funnily enough, Miz, the actual apocalypse is kind of something we’re actively trying to avoid and/or avert. We just don’t see “poking” the Hives as the undertaking likely to trigger that-- more like our best chance at finding out what’s actually happening and what we need to do before it’s too late.

You should really do a fly-along on one at some point. ARC probably wouldn’t mind an extra covops. We’ll take care of the barbaric bits, and you can see for yourself what’s got us so worried.

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