Drifter Interactions And Relations

Fiction Portal Intergalactic Summit
21

I’m not in the habit of willingly putting myself in the crosshairs of enemies unless I’m ready to open fire on them myself, this includes the majority of fleet members in your operations. I am sure as hell not putting my crew in said crosshairs. More importantly, I’ve already told you I’ve seen these things. There is no discernible difference between my camera drones and the ones that have captured feeds from these hives.

There’s nothing in there that tells me “I should shoot and annoy these things even more”.

Are you really telling me that out of the quite literally thousands and thousands and thousands of years of technological advancement we’ve had since the days of banging rocks together to see what happens, our best option for studying this potential threat is to go in guns blazing and picking through the debris? We can do better. And if we can’t, we should leave it to people who can.

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22

Not quite so. You see, right after the first contact (both with CSeekers then and Drifters after it) and studying their operating patterns (notably that they have “security perimeters” around things they consider “theirs”) we put up a number for capsules filled with information about ourselves in digital and physical form (just in case they don’t figure out how to read the files we literally put holo projectors with images outside) right outside those zones.

So one day I nearly got my ship melted when I went to check on those things. Then Hilen Tukoss happened, Jamyl Sarum followed, you know the rest.

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23

Yeah, and those are examples of why you shouldn’t be screwing with these things. They might not be talking, but there’s a very clear message in their actions there. Someone pissed them off and they took action. I am not convinced poking them towards taking further action is a good idea.

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24

You realize that the Seekers and Drifters wasn’t ‘the first contact’, right? That we’d literally been dismantling their stuff, destroying their automated defense systems, and stealing their hardware and software for years before that?

Everything we’ve got now says the Drifters are infomophs. What do you think the data libraries we’ve been pulling out of facilities in Anoikis for years pertained to?

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25

The Drifters are inhuman, so sayeth Her Late Majesty, Empress Jamyl I. They are not of God.

And they must be destroyed.

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26

If I put away 1 ISK each time I saw “You realize” in your message, I’d be a trillionaire by now.

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27

Hm! Well, this topic certainly became more interesting. I’ve a couple things to comment on.

In the first place, on the Sleepers and Drifters being directly associated; while there are clear links, given the Sleeper design base of the Circadian Seeker/Autothysian Lancer/Eosian Inquisitor chassis, the Circadian Seekers were a novel hull design on their first appearance, and the Drifter ships bear no similarities to any existing hull. What’s more, it was nearly two years from the Drifters’ first appearance in known space to their first appearance in Sleeper-colonized regions. This is to say, while the Drifters and Sleepers appear to be linked in some way, to say strictly that the Drifters are Sleeper-allied might be a stretch. Consider, for instance, that the Drifters appear to be cracking open Sleeper enclaves to get at fresh Sleeper cadavers, for instance, or that the Drifters only seem to care about the Sleeper drones in Drifter-dominated hive systems.

On the matter of Ms. Del’thul’s advice to not screw with these things, I must say this: what would you have us do? Should Capsuleers retreat from wormhole space? Should the various empires abandon their sovereignty near Jove observatories? Should we abandon the only source we have of certain advanced materials, and consign our reverse engineering work to the scrapheap? Certainly, it would be ideal if combat wasn’t the only recourse; but when a silent threat assassinates a head of state, launches an invasion of a major power, and does so with seemingly no loss to its own capability, I can’t help but feeling that any strategy that resembles wishful thinking and happy thoughts is inherently dangerous.

I can only assume, Ms. Del’thul, you’d feel differently about this if the Drifters had instead attempted a decapitation strike against the Republic.

All else aside, the work continues.

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28

Before these tangents go any further, I wish to make a few things very clear.

The reason, the only reason I am humoring diplomacy and not immediately declaring total execution of their entire species is because I am following the Twelve Virtues.

I won’t begin to read the whole scripture that’s involved with them, so I’ll summarize for the present audience.

They basically say I have to give all enemies one chance at “redemption” by giving me a legitimate reason as to why they intend to fight me. I must hear them out, and if they can confirm that they were not the original aggressors, and are instead acting upon their desires for self-preservation, I must work towards a suitable solution for both parties.

If they fail to acknowledge the offer, or do not provide suitable evidence for their continued existence, I will fire upon them, with no other argument for or against their existence.

You owe me nothing, @Alizabeth_Vea, but one opportunity for me to provide sufficient ability. That is all I ask. But you are right, I haven’t done a thing since the beginning of this war, because I had not yet become a part of it.

I don’t know who you are, and because you didn’t bother to show any common courtesy of at least providing useful data to prove or disprove my methods. You instead decided to make a snide remark and not justify it beyond the fact that “you know better than me”.

Then where’s the evidence?

I should care less about who you are, but I am going to ignore the comment moving forward.

The fact is we need every able body to work towards the common goal of discerning the Drifters’ goals, how it applies to us, and what we should do about it. Whether you like it or not, we know virtually nothing about them, besides combat tactics, the strength of their weapons, and the bare minimums of their actual forms as entities. So if we cannot determine what they intend to do before they finish their intended goals, we may be forced to go to war with them anyway.

But if there is the slightest chance that I can obey in accordance to the Twelve Virtues, then I’m going to take it, because it is my duty to do so.

Otherwise, I would have spent my time trying to slag every Drifter and Sleeper ship I saw, and failed to eradicate them as caused by my haste.

So REGARDLESS of the validity of my plans, or any merits they may hold, we must, must come to a consensus about how to deal with this.

There can be no mumbled disagreements.

There can be no alternative methods to deal with the problem as a whole, if it divides the forces we have at our disposal.

There must be total, utter agreement about what to do with these enigmatic “gahotdahset”.

Virtues damn it, this argument is making me slip.

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29

Retreat from spooky space isn’t an option, since it just can’t be enforced, nor can any other peaceful solution when there’s capsuleers involved. That said, not going in guns blazing shouldn’t be this much of a controversial subject.

These things have hardly launched “invasion” fleets on anything. Invasion takes territory or assets. They have struck against what certainly appears to be justified targets, with clear objectives in mind, which indicates they had certain grievances to address. They haven’t struck any significant military assets on any kind of invasion scale, they haven’t taken any territory, they have done less civilian damage through our entire history with them than we do in any given hour of the day. Given the amount of damage we’ve done tearing apart WH space unprovoked, I can hardly blame them for reaching out and giving a very clear message of “this is what you get”.

I’m sure you can understand why I have issues with unprovoked assaults on newly discovered space and territory. It was a vile crime back during the Day of Darkness and it’s not gotten more palatable since, even if the new target is less obviously human. Following this, it should also not come as a huge surprise that I not only condone their response, I am actually quite impressed with their restraint. I can assure you, if I had that kind of firepower and logistical clout at my disposal, worlds would burn in response to the vile aggressions towards my people. They blew up a Titan and killed a woman who’s history includes the condoning of murdering freed slave children.

If Shakor had pissed off these things like Jammies clearly had, I wouldn’t just condone their action, I’d be competing with them for the first shot. It’s a fitting punishment for a crime, and it certainly doesn’t justify inviting more of the same.

Look, no one is saying ignore the Drifters. No one is saying abandon all space they’ve been in. What I’m utterly and completely confounded by is the complete lack of… shall we say a subtler approach. If a non-violent approach is not doable for capsuleers, perhaps capsuleers should not be involved at this point. And should it come to pass that violence is the necessary and right approach, well it’s not like we won’t be around to deliver on that when it becomes necessary.

Edited to add: If you think I’m proposing we ignore them, I have to remind you I’ll happily spend ISK on research into the subject. The offer of further funding remains, for any project that might prove illuminating.

You are waging a war here, in response to something no one yet understands. This is so tragically human that I can only laugh in exasperation. Oh, and do consider the source here. I am a very violent being. I am steeped in the blood of crews from every nation and every faction of New Eden, and I am a fervent proponent of outright official war with the Empire until every last one of our people are freed. This should lend a little weight to my words, if I say “perhaps it’s not the time for war”.

It is simply not yet justified. It might not even be something we can survive.

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30

I’m a little curious, what are the twelve virtues?

31

The Drifters didn’t shoot first. We did. We’ve been attacking Sleeper enclaves in Anoikis for something like eight years now, and continue to do so even as the Sleepers have woken up their masters and begun to fight back. One problem: now that they’re fighting back, they apparently have no intention of there being a suitable solution for both parties.

Maybe, just maybe if we stopped literally ripping apart the structures that appear to be life support enclaves for their infomorphs, that might change. Maybe if we stopped attacking them, they’d stop fighting back. Of course, that would also mean no more Strategic Cruisers, no more Tactical Destroyers. So, maybe you could get all of us out of Anoikis. I doubt it, though.

Even if you did, there’s no guarantee that would change a damned thing. Why should it? Why should they trust us not to start trying to pillage their structures all over again? We did it once, we’ll probably do it again. It’s what we do. We expand, we consume. We’re like locusts, like a virus.

Would you trust us? After all, here you are ready to decide they all have to go if they can’t satisfy you that they deserve to live. Who are you to demand that kind of justification from anyone?

Don’t get me wrong, that’s not really an attack on you… but look at your insistence from their perspective. You are, in the large scope of things, nothing. Nobody. You don’t have access to the research CONCORD has—and has had, for years, I’m sure. And yet, CONCORD has made no move to keep us out of Anoikis. So for you to make these demands… why should they stop anything?

Which means that as near as we can tell… this may well be a war of extermination. At this point, there are basically two choices: stay away from them, or kill them on sight.

As for who Alizabeth is, and where the evidence is that she knows better than you… Alizabeth is the head of SERAPH. Check the bit after the image.

As for ‘total, utter agreement about what to do’… good luck. You’re not gonna get that out of a group of people considering what to get for dinner, much less dozens of autonomous maniacs who get treated like demigods for a living.

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32

Is there any evidence of the drifters showing any form of thought process aside from improved tactual capabilities? If not, I would like to introduce the possibility that they are just hungry, and the more they grow in numbers, the more that hunger grows. Could it be that their only agenda in new Eden is to devour biomass to increase their forces or replenish losses? Is it possible that they do not speak because the simply aren’t programmed that way (not specifically stating that the are robots)?

I just had a thought while reading this that reminded me of an alien race outside of Eve that have no desire for diplomacy and show no pleasure or discontent in their actions, yet do it solely for sustenance. They are simply a cancer upon the universe and must be cut out!!!

33

There doesn’t seem to be evidence for that, Lee. If that was true, they really would be cyber-zombies.

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34

A ‘hungry species’ doesn’t suddenly stage an incursion into another species’ public events and kill a head of state, then run off again with a ton of juicy targets just sitting around. They have clear goals and intents, even if we don’t have the data required to suss them out.

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35

It is a bit of a sore spot for me to explain the nature of the Virtues of Harmony @Alizabeth_Vea , but since you did not know, considering their relative obscurity, I will explain.

The Twelve Virtues of Harmony were originally Six Virtues forged during the Dark Ages and the Six Virtues evolved into a new Six Virtues, over the course of time. This did not invalidate the original Six, but instead produced different interpretations of the Virtues, which were similar, but distinct from the Old Six. Since neither group made the other contradictory, we allowed the Old and New Six to become merely Twelve.

These are like commandments, but attached to each Virtue is a lesson in how it is applied, and each of the Virtues work towards a common goal of peace and prosperity, even when it seems unlikely to occur at all. It’s all forged by bonds with others, which allow for synergy between them, and overall, greater ability and wisdom. The Virtues each can act like a solution to a particular problem, and when all are used in conjunction, it is believed that anything can be accomplished or achieved, much like the synergy of those that use and apply them. Of course, the number of Virtues and inherit human nature make this difficult to have occur, it is possible.

It is here that I am trying to apply these Virtues to the situation.

Unfortunately, under great duress, and without the support of others who understand the Virtues and how to apply them, I often lose sight of the true goal, as one of the rules for the Virtues has always been, and always will be, “don’t go it alone”.

So Arrendis has brought me back. Admittedly, I am a little ashamed for it, being I was not correct, but it matters little anymore.

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36

Mizhara is correct, and we must understand those goals and intents before we do anything else.

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37

Yeah, so, is there like, you know, a list?

39

Of the actual Virtues? Yes.

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40

Will you post it?

41

Can I? Yes, but only when it’s relevant to the main body of the conversation. Will I here? No, because we’re talking about Drifters. I will say they are the pillars that make up the vast majority of my relationships with other Capsuleers, including my friend, General Lee, who has just entered the conversation.

Why? You seem to be very interested.

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