Yeah, my mistake
I wonder if, as a civilization seemingly existing in some sort of post-human as opposed to trans-human state, the Collective no longer considers itself human. Naturally, we’re getting to strange and philosophical areas where we discuss existential notions of what it means to be human, but philosophy aside the idea may have bearing on some of these discussions.
Otherwise, fascinating to follow the discussion!
Also, do please remember, pilots, that for all that these exchanges sometimes seem fraught, we’re still grasping in the dark. As more information is uncovered, we’ll surely be able to hone our understanding; arguments had today may seem farcical in a year, a month, even a week.
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ANNOUNCEMENT : CONSTRUCTION PROGRESSION OBSERVED
A shipyard has been found with a more complete construction. The starboard wing of the vessel has been constructed, and the portside wing has been greatly extended - with the assumption that the construction will be symmetrical, it will posess a wingspan in excess of 50.000m.
Additionally, an enormous energy source has been observed forming in the vessel’s Core Cradle; the radiant and continually condensing source’s output measurements match those of standard Triglavian Cores, though this gargantuan variant will dwarf even the largest Battleships in both dimensions and volume.
Observational footage disseminated below:
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I wander how is it being built? There are no apparent technical personnel outside, no shuttles cruising around, seemingly no nanite projectors or anything of that sort. Like it’s being built from inside of itself. That’s fascinating!
Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow dialectical semiosis flow (indecipherable) follows:
Augmented Foreign Narodnya «encountered augmented human entities within singleton format ranges exhibit varied allegiance profiles» (indecipherable) reverse-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «archive pattern analysis suggests allegiance profiles conform to diverse scattering of points in scatter-volume model of civilization development» (indecipherable).
Note that part of the message goes in quotes, latest datastreams seem partially deciphered, thus change in terms used I assume. Not sure is it our tech learns to interpret their messages better, or is it Triglavians learning to communicate in more intelligible way.
This suggests that the Triglavians have some kind of standing order to destroy any hive-mind entities they encounter. Is that your understanding of that phrase ?
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When observing the shipyard, you can see sparks flying in small areas from construction (as well as moving objects emitting light), and supplies for its construction are presumably being stored in the Caches nearby - one of which seems to be regularly unshielded, allowing us to snag our own plunder. It does seem to be under construction from within a projected holo-schema, which is being filled out with real material over time.
The type-5 Datastreams come alongside the Semiosis Consoles, and were translated in part through the use of the strange objects:
This self-contained unit seems to be a device combining a number of sophisticated interfaces with internal processing and storage capacity geared towards symbolic or conceptual modelling. The device evidently provides for communication of constructed models either through its built-in holographic and nanomemetic functions, or via a variety of outputs if these are connected to an appropriate network. It is possible that the device also incorporates quantum entanglement communications technology.
Yes, that’s certainly my best interpretation of it - an “ancient-time accepted noema” really can’t mean anything other than an extremely long-standing policy.
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that seems likely to me, since the drifters also seem to operate as a hive-mind of sorts (although obviously of a different variety than sansha) which they seem to have quite a long and very hostile relationship with, so a standing policy of exterminating any hive mind entities they encounter doesn’t seem out of character.
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While I debate the truth of hive-mind claims against the Drifters, given so little data on them, I believe the Collective views their entry into the Abyss with far more alarm than others:
Cladeships of the 3 tactical troika classification in communion militant of Varpulis Subclade of Perun Clade encountered the Ancient Enemy Azdaja at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) while processing in sub-18 exclave of conduit loop construct-405. Absolute imperative of poshlost extirpation against Azdaja was invoked without acceptable material realization.
This excerpt from AEA1 shows an very extreme reaction to the Drifters - I believe the Triglavians have a much deeper knowledge of their origins than we do, and that they know them to be something extremely threatening to their way of life or their past operations. The “ABSOLYE IMPERATIVE OF POSHLOST EXTIRPATION” was invoked as soon as the Drifters were encountered for the first time within the Abyss - a far more hostile and established fearful-sounding reaction than the Collective had to any other form of life listed in the record we posses.
The fact that they relate the Tyrannos to the Second Empire Tyrants as we do, combined with their unexpectedly thorough documentation of certain policies and records of the Second Empire, matches very well with assertions that the Drifters’ emergence from the ruins of the Sleeper civilization comes after the self-exodus of the Sleepers from New Eden to Anoikis sometime around the end of the Second Jove Empire.
AEA : Ancient Enemy Azdaja : Drifters
AEA1
Cladeships of the 3 tactical troika classification in communion militant of Varpulis Subclade of Perun Clade encountered the Ancient Enemy Azdaja at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) while processing in sub-18 exclave of conduit loop construct-405. Absolute imperative of poshlost extirpation against Azdaja was invoked without acceptable material realization. Tactical troika of Varpulis Subclade placed a casting of absorbed data into the cladeflow for reflection of Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle.
AEA2
Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle has affirmed the need for playful communion of repeated-time by the Clades Assembled and Subclades Militant and Technical. The entosis of the Ancient Enemy Azdaja into the loop constructs must be sever-reversed by the volition and merge-consent of Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle. The adaptation schema of cladeships for all tactical troika classifications may be entered into the cladeflow without proving.
AEA3
Report of the Paramount Strategic Troika of the Leshak Subclade of Veles Clade has reaffirmed the dispersal of reverse-time reclaimed adaptation schema of 729 tactical troika classification vessels into the cladeflow after proving in anti-cladistic mortification with the Ancient Enemy Azdaja. Repeated-time casting and winnowing of invocations of imperative of poshlost extirpation against Azdaja reveals a (indecipherable) acceptable material realization.
AEA4
Prayer of the Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow has evoked procession from Convocation of Triglav Outside the Struggle that requires winnowing of all discourses operating as elements in relation to the Ancient Enemy Azdaja through semiosis.Detached Executive Troika is granted mandate in sobornost to invoke countervailing imperatives without reverse-time proving. Convocation affirms imperative on Detached Executive Troika to maintain playful communion over repeated-time with Clades Assembled and Subclades Militant and Technical.
AEA5
Detached Executive Troika for Sublimation of Poshlost Flow dialectical semiosis flow (indecipherable) follows:Ancient Enemy Azdaja «present manifestation encountered as Vigilant Tyrannos» reverse-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «archive pattern analysis indicates successor entity of Jove Empire of the Chamber of Tyrants» (indecipherable) evocation of poshlost undoubted and imperative for extirpation without proving.
Now-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «recovered materials indicates presence» (indecipherable) unshackled in forbidden dominance arrangement «counter to ideological patterns recovered pertaining to Jove Empire of the Chamber of Tyrants !query++encode|Jovian expansionist polity iter.2.?.?|recode++process! indicating anomaly in ideological development» (indecipherable) pass through advancing-time new discourse-element configuration.
Advancing-time discourse-element (indecipherable) «reinforce request for countervailing measures to be undertaken» (indecipherable) «continue with surveillance and proceed to next stage within predicted time horizon for effective action» (indecipherable) submit to cladeflow.
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this is fair enough, my assumption that the drifters operate, at least in some way on a hive-mind type structure is based simply on encounters with ships, seemingly piloted by multiple instances of the same consciousness. for example I have ran into 5+ instances of Scylla Tyrannos at once.
Now this may be a case of one mind being projected into 5 different bodies, or it could be 5 different entities all cloned from the same template, but I would argue that both would still qualify as a hive-mind.
after all, in an ant colony, each ant is its own distinct unit, but they are largely interchangeable with one another within their castes. and I don’t think anyone would argue that they are a hive-mind.
So while I don’t think they have the same form of mental link that sansha seem to have, they do display enough characteristics of a hive-mind that they should qualify.
I’ve before suggested the alternate possibility that the Drifters’ names are a rank or position within the Tyrannos military structure, rather than a personal identifier or indication of multiple infomorphic instances. That’s not to say I don’t believe your suggestion to be possible, but I see no reasons to lean towards any possibility at this time. (though it’s my hope that they aren’t a hivemind - one of those is already enough for me~)
I do agree with you that it seems to be tied to some form of position within their military hierarchy. but one does not preclude the other. using the ant example again, every warrior ant looks and behaves effectively identical to every other warrior ant, despite clearly being an individual unit. Every instance of a Tyrannos that I have encountered so far has been effectively identical to every other instance with the same designation, so even if they are individuals to some degree, they do seem to all be based on the same template.
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Kinda like Blood Dark Priests or Guristas Spies?
((At this point, it’s kinda hewing close to ‘my god, it’s like they’re all NPCs!’, and so, like Faramir [in the books, dammit], might I suggest that knowing the truth, we intentionally shoot wider the mark?))
At the very least, it’s known that all Sleeper bodies were based on the same genetic template. Drawing from that, the Drifter bodies crafted from those corpses would also appear that same way - on the physical side, your assertion is almost assuredly the case 
On the psychological side, though, I take issue with the idea of a small few base beings leading such a force as the Drifters. It may come from a personal place of thought and hope, I admit, but the idea of only a few individuals making up the entirety of this expanding faction is utterly disappointing as a concept.
Having so few means that only a few are even involved in the ambitions and dreams of the Tyrannos, whatever they may be - and in that case, what of the hundreds of thousands of Sleepers which once made up their civilization? Have their once-living selves dissolved into nothing while only a few rise from the ashes of countless individuals?
Could be that they are still sleeping, could be that they are all dead, could be that the ones we have seen thus far are merely the vanguard sent to ensure the time is right and clear the way for the rest. just like only a small fraction of our societies are warriors, and an even smaller percentage of those are suited to vanguard deployments, while the rest would follow in their wake. Its purely speculative, but its not so different from how we would likely operate under similar circumstances.
as for why we haven’t seen more instances, could be a lack of biomass, or resources, could be that they consider anoikis too unstable and have not gained a sufficient foothold in normal space, or any other number of reasons that we haven’t seen more come back from… whatever happened to them. (i’ll admit, my knowledge of the drifters is rather lacking, so I only understand it in broadest strokes, so will bow to your expertise since you seem to know more about them)
On the contrary. The Old language of my ancestors - which true name probably no one knows by now, but my great-grandmother refered to it as “Slavan” few times - has a specific way of creating words, as I found out from my linguistic research. The base are so-called “root words”, to which are added different pre- or sufixes.
In the word “narodnya”, the root word is rod - separatelly, it means “clan” or “lineage” or even “folk”, but it is also a base for a lot of different words: narod (nation), rodina (family), porod (birth), uroda (harvest) - all have in common the verb from which they are derived: rodit (=to give a birth).
So the word “narodnya” or “narodeni” is literally translated as “birthed ones”.
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Could it be possible that Triglavians in their society difference its members to a “castes” by a way they have been borned/created?
In that case, the word “Narodnya” would refer to any being that were created by “traditional” biological way.
The Navka, on the other hand, were mythological “ghosts” or “spirits”, entirely lacking any living bodies, hence that could refer to Triglavians AIs/Infomorphs.
Only on Koschoi I don’t have clear opinion. Kaschey/Koscei/Kostej “the Immortal” was a mythological daemon, whose body was unkillable until his soul (hidden on Bujan) was destroyed.
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I think the Jove are, as a race, pretty much extinct but maybe still twitching. Nothing has been heard from them in a while, and even the SoCT has been very quiet. Sleeper defenses could well be on automatic, we don’t have the capability to see if there is any activity beyond that. The Drifters don’t really see to be alive in a lot of ways, the autopsy is pretty conclusive on that. We see them doing things, but is it really intelligent behavior? No more than Rogue Drones.
Is it a process of evolution in action? The Narodnya are birthed, go through proving and receive cladistic glorification, becoming Koschoi, or cladistic mortification and become Navka? There is a sense with the Navka that some are constrained and others are not.
What am I pretty certain of, is that this “evolution in action” or, as I call it “controlled evolution” is The Struggle. The specific mechanics of it, however, are beyond my understanding. Yet.
I saw this, it clearly means Capsuleers yes? I might be late to the game but reading this makes me feel it’s aimed at us. Since no one else was talking about it I guess this is just a request for confirmation in regards to this. “Augmented Foreign Narodnya” meaning Capsuleers since we can be augmented with implants and I feel some need them to enter the Abyss and survive. “Reverse-time Discourse-element” meaning the fact that we can’t die. You destroy the body and the mind wakes up in a new one essentially reversing time for the individual who just passed on. “archive pattern analysis suggests allegiance profiles conform to diverse scattering of points in scatter-volume model of civilization development” our corporations, Alliances, and Coalitions. This report makes me wonder if they are debating on what we are to them. Are we a threat, a nuisance, a friend since we can enter their realm of space despite it being a limited time?
Again I know I am jumping into this rather late, but after reading this I was curious to if my assumptions were correct since I saw no others speaking on this in great detail. When this Capital is built, will all of New Eden need to stand up against it? Will it only be tasked with destroying Drifters, Sleepers, and Rouge Drones? Is Concord being highly quiet about many things in their report because they have made a deal to spare the empires of New Eden with the Triglvians?
I would assume it was to some degree of this, unless the first pilot to enter on that fateful run was stopped and spoken to by the Triglavian inhabitants and informed of the threat they are. After all Concord was in constant contact with the pilot, or did he find one of these super ships already constructed and wasn’t able to make the exit in time? Many questions and few answers, however I know one among you all will be able to get me up to speed rather quickly.