[ARC] Semiosis

[Baron_Redwolfe]

@Siegfried_Tahl

Abyssal deadspace connections opened by filaments are referred as loop-conduits, because they are loops from k-space back to k-space. This new Kostorg clearly is something different.

Yes we know that the filaments open a Loop-Conduit, could it be possible that Kostorg is a conduit to their home? After all they can’t just live from one loop conduit to another can they? There is clearly a massive empire behind the driving force of the Triglavian’s and even clans among them. No capusleer has ever seen the home of the Triglavian Empire, and what if that first exploratory vessel that was sent in by Concord, what if it was not destroyed? What if, instead of blowing it up, it was pulled into the Triglavian home conduit and welcomed as a first contact? There is still much about that we don’t know or have. We only got a display, a diagram, and rough footage.

I tend to be curious if the Filaments were originally meant as the trial… You enter, go through three gates, and if you lived, you were given access to their home. Again Concord are the ones that interfered with that did they not? What if they rigged them to redeposit capsuleers and pilots back into the real space instead of giving the Triglavian’s a means of showing a truth?

There are many questions still to ask and many ideas floating in my head. Some I dare not say for sounding too… conspiracy driven I would say. Last thing I wish to have happen to be laughed out of this Summit for having wild and insane theories.

[Baron_Redwolfe]

@Siegfried_Tahl

Spatio-temporal coordinates and Jovian expantionist polity and Kostorg conduit all in the same paragraph. Can it be that they are opening gates from Abyss into regions A821-A and J7HZ-F known to belong to Jove. These regions are adjacent to Rogue Drone regions too.

Looking at it from this view, is it possible they “tried” too and that is why we get the “!nog++encode!Jovian expansionist Polity iters.[2.0.0,2.7.2.0] I recode++process! not reconciled with ingressing data”? After all we do know that all the gates in Jove space were knocked out don’t we? What if it was a code sent to a specific gate to access the Jove Empire and find out what is going on. Only to have them find that the gate is offline and unwilling to reactivate?

[Baron_Redwolfe]

Wait… [2.0.0,2.7.2.0] what if these are Cartesian Coordinates in New Eden? Hear me out, we know that New Eden has been mapped out using Cartesian Coordinates that allow all stars, planets, and structures to be known down to the very meter they exist at.

Looking through old data archives of New Eden, I find this:

" The coordinates are usually written as three numbers (or algebraic formulas) surrounded by parentheses and separated by commas, as in (3, −2.5, 1) or ( t , u + v , π/2). Thus, the origin has coordinates (0, 0, 0), and the unit points on the three axes are (1, 0, 0), (0, 1, 0), and (0, 0, 1)."

This is for the generic 3rd Dimension point plotting meaning, upon an X, Y, and Z axis, each point will point to a specific area in a given box dimension. Like Jita is located at lets say, 4, 9, 2 of the Cartesian Coordinate map. That means, from galactic center, if we use it as zero, Jita is up 4 LY, X Side to 9 LY, and Z to 2 LY, meaning if you fly in a line reaching that point. You will end up in or Right next to Jita.

It’s already been discussed that New Eden was mapped out using this method, and it’s worked all this time. Why would we think anything other wise? All we need to do is know where their 0 point is, the center of what they are trying to access and find the mystery of this message?

Then again I could have said all this sounding smart and be completely off base on this matter. I leave with this last tid bit as someone smarter than I could possibly come to a better conclusion with hope, from my own findings.

“New Eden is a loosely-bound cluster of stars approximately 106 light years long, 90 light years wide, and 25 light years thick. The cluster contains 5,433 star systems with stargate connections, though significantly more stars and stellar remnants with no gate connections exist within. Because stargates are almost exclusively deployed in star systems with orbital bodies, every star system within New Eden has at least one planet. It similarly contains many black holes, neutron stars, and white dwarfs, but these have also been mostly left unconnected to the stargate system. The cluster is relatively densely packed, with the average system having at least one neighbor less than a light year away from it. It is composed of stars of all stellar classifications and ages.”

[Aiden_Vayle]

If you read up the thread before posting, we already came to conclusions on all of that information.

@Baron_Redwolfe

archived spatio-temporal co-ordinate ranges
!nog++encode|Jovian expansionist polity iters.[2.0.0,2.7.2.0] | recode++process! not reconciled with ingressing data

You have an interesting idea about physical co-ordinates, but it doesn’t work. [2.0.0] and [2.7.2.0] can’t mix as a co-ordinate system. If they’re two co-ordinates, we would need a third, for a third axis, to pin down a location. If they’re two sets of co-ordinates, each number in each set representing a position on a Cartesian axis… why does the second set have four numbers when the first doesn’t? Co-ordinate systems only work if every co-ordinate set operates on the same axes.

When you’re examining those [2.0.0] and [2.7.2.0], you need to think about the temporal half of “Spatio-temporal co-ordinate”, and that one word you ingored, “iters.”, is what gives it away, as “iters.” is most likely short for “iterations”, or versions. What’s happening here is that the Triglavians are accessing their archived data for the space-time co-ordinates that were host to versions [2.0.0] through [2.7.2.0] of a “Jovian Expansionist Polity”. A “polity” is a Greek word for “city” that could best be defined as “city-state” today, but when we’re already talking about something with versions from 2.0 to 2.7, it looks a lot like “polity” means “empire”. Specifically, the Second Jove Empire, comprising versions [2.0.0] to [2.9.9.9] of their society, though the Triglavians only saw it up to its [2.7.2.0] stage. The Failure of the Nog++Encode! command, and the Recode++Process!, is a literalist depiction of the Triglavians’ difficulty comprehending that the Second Empire is no longer where they remember it being, nor anywhere else, because it collapsed during the time they were isolated in Abyssal Deadspace.

[Aiden_Vayle]

@Siegfried_Tahl

Is Navka still Navka?

I think what’s most likely is that the Triglavians are just… Infomorphs. Like the Capsuleers, like the Sleepers and Drifters, like basically everyone who matters in New Eden. As infomorphs, their thoughts are code. Their minds are code. Their existence is a self-aware program. One of the first things we became aware of in relation to the Triglavians was the idea of Networked Clones, three clones united as a single Hive-mind entity, and we’ve seen that the Triglavians society, their social order, is built on larger and larger groupings of sets of three. Three united clones, three united ships, three united fleets, all the way up to the three united Clades.

What I think is happening here, why we see all this raw code in the Triglavians messages, is a mix of fundamental differences from us, and language decay. We don’t really know how this idea of networked clones, and three minds as one, affects the Triglavians’ minds at the most basic level, how it affects the thought process they perceive to themselves. It’s possible that existing as a networked consciousness of informorphs just naturally leads to no longer describing your actions by what they are, what it is you’re doing, but by the code you execute to make it happen. “recode++process!” becomes a verb, where “overwrite archive data” might once have been used. Alternatively, this may arise from the Triglavians’ isolation, and their language has been whittled down to the barest, most necessary, most basically descriptive bones, because they never talk to anyone but themselves, so they don’t need to make themselves comprehensible to anyone else.

[Siegfried_Tahl]

I totally agree with you, and on several occasions I expressed very same idea of them being 3 or more minds in a single body. But still, when Narodnya was corrupted, Koschoi and Navka voted for immolation. Which means that even being loaded in the same body all 3 of them are able to think and act somewhat independently.

So what happens if one part becomes corrupt and two other aren’t able to do anything about it, or even notice it?

[Aiden_Vayle]

@Siegfried_Tahl

3 or more minds in a single body

I think you’ve got it backwards here- with the networked clones, what we’re talking about is three separate bodies, with the minds linked as one. Or at least, as three parts of one whole.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

Yes the Troika seems to be 3 individuals with a shared infomorphic work space.
iter and the other references, as in encode, recode, process etc are database instructions. iter 2 is second in a list, 2.1 is the first item in a sub list of iter 2. From what we have seen iter 2 appears to refer to 2nd Empire Jove.

[Siegfried_Tahl]

It was discussed earlier thought we don’t have any hard evidence about anything really, but this HFN2 report which is cited several times in this thread contained this part:

Entosis of hivelinked foreign narodnya into body of a 3 tactical troika classification cladeship commenced at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable) and corrupted Narodnya of Zembog Subclade. The Koschoi of the tactical troika advised immolation. The Navka consented and invoked immolation at reverse-time co-ordinates (indecipherable).

I admit we don’t have any hard evidence about Triglavians. Anything about them really. As their ships turned out to be incredibly compatible with our capsule tech, I jumped to conclusion there’s one body that pilots it by Triglavian design. And that this pilot contains troika of infomorphs.

But now giving it more thought I can imagine that Narodnya may be an infomorph in a physical body, Koschoi may be an infomorph in the ship, and Navka an infomorph distributed among Vila. Thus Navka commensing immolation was in fact drones destroying the ship with infected pilot, with ships consent. That’s confusing.

[Aiden_Vayle]

I think the general conclusion on that transmission is that those three nouns, Narodnya, Koschoi, and Navka, are titles rather than specific entities. It’s always the Koschoi, and the Navka, after all, and Narodnya is used to describe both the party doing the corrupting, and the party being corrupted. “Narodnya” could mean anything from “Entities” to a more specific group (I suspect it means “Infomorphs”), “Koschoi” being either leaders or strategists, and “Navka” being workers/followers, pilots, or something of that sort. So, the translation of the paragraph is more like “X was becoming corrupted by hivelinked foreign Narodnya (Current theory is that these are the Sansha), so the leaders/strategists advised destroying them before the corruption could take hold. The pilots agreed, and destroyed X just a (unit of time) ago,”

[Siegfried_Tahl]

And now I totally disagree with you on that.

[Aiden_Vayle]

Why’s that?

[Tanagura_Amoii]

@Baron_Redwolfe

They are talking about likely re-opening a gate they never needed to open before, or sealed off for a reason. Ancient time meaning they are opening a gate that likely got them there. A means of returning to normal space via this Conduit.

Yes I think that this is the case. The war was going badly and they sealed a key confluence of conduits in an act of desperation. But they cannot get back to our space reliably through abyssal space, and want to reopen the sealed Chamber of Gates.

The Triglavians were so damaged by the war that it has taken them this long to recover even after sealing themselves off.

[Lirbiss_Naraunt]

@xPaPaHet

What is KOSTORG?

And what about this - since the sufix -rg or -org is highly unusual in Triglavian, I began to suspect there is some kind of transcription mistake, maybe a letter missing. And probably a vowel, because most of Triglavian words have them before letter “g” (Svarog, Dazhbog, Augmented, Triglav, Struggle).

So, like few before me, I also came to the word “Kostorog”, but thanks to previous experiences with literal translations, I stayed with it for a while, trying to comprehend all its connotations.

Literal meaning would be “Bonfire”, but it could also be interpreted as “Bone-Horn”, and since I know these were used for “call to war” in ancient times, could it perhaps be some kind of “beacon” or “assembly” conduit?

[Gosakumori_Noh]

@Siegfried_Tahl

After watching those I suggested they were 2 out of 3 pylons of a gate to bring their Dreadnought or Titan under construction ship after its finished from Abyss to our space. And I’m convinced the latest message supports this theory.

My first take on those videos was that they showed “medium-object” and “large-object.” It did not occur to me that they might be pieces of a single object. While I can’t rule out that they are pieces of a single object, I have certain psychological disorders which cannot abide the unappealing failure of symmetry that would result from combining them into one thing. I don’t see how the lines would work.

However, whether they are two things or pieces of one thing, the idea that they are relevant to Kostorg seems very sound. My own thinking is that these are great big extirpation devices. If Kostorg is indeed a confluence of conduits that would allow access to a variety of extirpation targets, then we should see demonseraph contention over control of Kostorg from both sides.

As for the meaning of Kostorg itself, when I read the word I immediately gravitate to kost… org(anization). However I realize that acronyms etc do not work so well across languages.

[Shef_Rostov]

[Shef_Rostov]

new footage of constraction site

[DutchGunner]

Though I am unable to provide recorded footage, I do have pictures from my encounter with a shipyard. Apologies up front for the possible poor quality but I was under fire.

If my translation is correct, the abyssal pocket where I had this encounter holds the name Oretgube. I have provided a shot of the part with the name to have my translation confirmed or corrected.

On the below shots, it is clear that we are talking about a massive construct. The right wing section can be clearly seen as being under construction. Plating is being moved into position and additional materials (maybe bulkheads?) can be seen stockpiled on top of the wing , as well as the earlier confirmed hardpoint.

In order to grant a better indication of the scale of this thing, I’ll provide a additional two shots of both the right wing and the rest of the construct:

While flying past the ride wing, I noticed that my cruiser could fit in there vertically and several times horizontally. This means that the interior is going to be gargantuan.

The same can be said for the singularity or singularities that will power it. The one that is being formed outside of the construct seems to be of the same size as my cruiser.

Activity is certainly increasing as there has been an increase in guiding lights around the construct. I also believe that construction of the left wing might have started at this site due the the diagonal bottom plate underneath that looks identical to the one underneat the right wing that is under construction.

[Aiden_Vayle]

Very interesting… this capital ship is going to be impressive indeed, and likely an absolute powerhouse in combat. I don’t want to assume the pylons we’ve been seeing in these recent Semiosis Console intercepts are jump gates, though… heck, we capsuleers don’t need jump gates to move our Titans around. The Triglavians are under different circumstances, down in the Abyss, but who’s to say that this behemoth of a ship can’t do the same?

[Tanagura_Amoii]

I think that is a station which the Triglavians will invite us to use.