[ARC] Semiosis

[Arrendis]

Just to verify[1] the revised size estimates:
Uriel’s revised estimate:

This puts the structure (be it mobile or im-) at ~20-21km front to back. Obviously, we can’t get an Avatar in there to sit next to it like this. However… the latest video does give us an extremely convenient comparison. Why?

Because of how long a Gila is.

For reference, this is the frame of the video which gives us our benchmark:

It’s an almost perfect profile shot of a 334m-long Gila, near a segmented cowling on the underside of the construction, that just happens to also line up as a profile image of the construction itself. And, because we know how long a Gila is…

That 1km result of 3 Gila-lengths is just extremely handy.

From there, we can then determine the size of the cowling:

This gives us the length of the cowling at just under 1.6km.

2km extends from the back of the cowling to in-line with a smaller area of highlight below and fore of the cowling:

And that, in turn, allows us to make use of a somewhat wider-angle shot:

In this, the green line on the inset reproduces the measurement from the narrower frame, while the red is 6km long. One final frame from the video gives us a less neatly-lined up viewing angle, but a more complete view of the front-to-back length overall:

The highlighted area is the cowling, giving us the rough size of the thing. Taking this view, we can see that the entire construction, front-to-back, is at least 12-15km long. Given just a bit of distance built into that initial frame (which is highly probably, given the position of the Gila as the camera moves), an additional 30-40%, putting the estimate into the range of 16-21km, is very possible.

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1. I don’t think Uriel’s estimate necessarily needed verification, but having public record of a second method for an estimate can be a useful pile of data, especially when the two estimates line up.

[Aiden_Vayle]

Interesting idea. Why do you think so?

[Tanagura_Amoii]

It is simply too large to be only a ship. At such scale, it seems to be a distinction with little difference. I have tried paying more attention to stations that I dock in. Some Gallente stations, particularly the flatter disk variety, have what also appear to be engines - I imagine for positioning the structure. Furthermore, some of the intakes in M. Rostov’s video appear much too large for drone bays. For example, at 1:35 the intake resembles the entrance corridors of Caldari station models.

My expectation is that when the Triglavians are satisfied with the proving, they will ask us to choose the direction of assisting them in their conflict with the Tyrant forces. They will move this station into a position that is advantageous against the Drifters, perhaps in the Chamber of Gates. They will then offer it as a staging ground for capsuleers who have chosen correctly.

After all, in order to be of help, we would need a reliable base near the threat.

[Aiden_Vayle]

Well said. Even if this is a capital ship, at its size it’s most likely it’ll be used as a station, a semi-mobile base of operations. All we can reliably glean from that, however, is nothing new: Whatever the Triglavians are planning next, this behemoth (Can we call it that? A “Behemoth”? It evokes grand scale like “Titan” does, but isn’t in use as a ship class…) will likely be the centerpiece of it.

[Tanagura_Amoii]

@Aiden_Vayle

Can we call it that? A “Behemoth”?

I think so. I would call it Leviathan, but that name is taken, isn’t it?

[Aiden_Vayle]

Yes, “Leviathan” is the name for the Caldari model of Titan. “Behemoth”, on the other hand, seems to be available.

[Uriel_Paradisi_Anteovnuecci]

I might put forward “mothership” as a suggestion, considering its massive SMA-esque bays on the front - my best guess is that these are meant to serve as mobile bases of operation of some sort, perhaps comparable to a moving citadel~

[Aiden_Vayle]

Seems a tad trite (Weren’t Supercarriers called “motherships” at their inception?), but I like it. “Triglavian Behemoth” or “Triglavian Mothership” both seem apt as titles, as they both describe its aspects… I wonder if the Triglavians themselves have named the structure yet?

[Arrendis]

Maybe ‘Worldship’…

[Siegfried_Tahl]

@Aiden_Vayle

I wonder if the Triglavians themselves have named the structure yet?

I would bet Bujan is the name. There are several meanings to the word reported to be found in ancient archives: An island-city of wonders.
A pier. Or a ruffian, a brawler.

@Tanagura_Amoii

Furthermore, some of the intakes in M. Rostov’s video appear much too large for drone bays.

Imagine it uses Leshaks for drones.

[Bjorn_Tyrson]

@Aiden_Vayle

Yes, “Leviathan” is the name for the Caldari model of Titan. “Behemoth”, on the other hand, seems to be available.

May I suggest the name “Indrik” at least for the time being, in the old myths from which the triglavians seem to draw many of their naming conventions, it was supposedly a giant bull-like creature that was capable of shaking the ground when it moved. seems more fitting to their naming conventions than behemoth while still getting the same concept of “really ■■■■■■■ big thing” across.

[Sibylla_Aldanar]

@Tanagura_Amoii

It is simply too large to be only a ship.

Have you forgotten about the Iapetan titans, which are large enough and massive enough to affect planetary tides, and are the absolute largest ships in existence? The titans that capsuleers are currently allowed to use are simply the Promethean titans, which are far smaller and weaker than the Iapetan titans.

[Annisir_Kaugan]

Could be its designed for migration.

[Baron_Redwolfe]

Going to be honest, this is why I shouldn’t try to think about things when half asleep. My brain does really unwanted things to ideas when in that state. However again this just reaffirms that I often do not know what I am talking about.

[Tanagura_Amoii]

@Sibylla_Aldanar

Have you forgotten about the Iapetan titans

I was not aware of them to begin with. I will therefore amend my belief: “I think it is a station or Iapetan titan that will be offered to us as a base.”

[Baron_Redwolfe]

I don’t think it will be offered to Capsuleers, after all what is the primary focus of a war? Being able to field and maintain your fighting force. A ship this massive doesn’t need to use gates since Triglavian’s use Conduits. With as much power as a ship this size can produce, I feel this could literally open a Conduit in the Home system of any Empire, unleash a horde of ships to decimate the local militia. and then fend off any other defending force.

For Triglavian’s being essentially 3 as 1, to sever the enemy, you cut off the head. The Head being any location known as the “Home” of any Empire. While Rouge Drones do not have a centralized core that is known, or at least known to me, those will be harder to deal with. However Jovians, Amar, Caldari, Minmatar, Gallente, Drifters… they all have a Central Command, or main starting point if you will.

I don’t think this thing is merely a ship, and a lot of talks on it have made me come to think of Mobile Space Station. One that can show up, engage the threat, and then if need be, retreat. I think we are looking at a literal war in heaven with favor to the Triglavians who can simply open a conduit when and where they please.

If they grant anything like this to Capsuleers you can expect it to be severely dumbed down since something that large, can field armies, fleets, and maintain atmosphere the Triglavian’s need to survive. As for naming it, I have to agree with Bjorn Tyrson. “Indrik” would be a fitting name as where ever this thing shows up, it will be akin to a Bull in a China shop scenario.

It may not be the largest object in known space, Keepstars are still larger than this ship by far, but what ever it’s intention is, there wont be much that can hold it back by any normal standard. I expect to see a drastic change in many Empires in this, after all they have been rather stagnant in their technology for a very long time. Only the Caldari have been updating ships on a steady pace, with some Minmatar and Gallente. However Many ships we fly are still based on designs older than all Capsuleers. Even the Jove Empire has stagnated in any technology we see today.

This massive ship/station/platform will bring about some very drastic changes to our existence, it’s going to fall upon us, the capsuleers, to decide what direction that change goes. If the reports coming out of any Triglavian data is to be understood. After all do they consider us the next “evolution” of races?

[Baron_Redwolfe]

I found the archived data on these IAPETAN TITANS and linked it here so you can read up on them. Some of the data has been lost as to images, and renderings given how old the archive is. This isn’t surprising but the scary fact is, they still exist. It was reported that the Gallente had readied their Capital wing full of Soltueur class titans during the operation known as “Highlander” and thankfully were never called into action. Where are they being stored is the bigger mystery to me.

[Sibylla_Aldanar]

Just to clarify, Iapetan titans are actually much larger than the Triglavian vessel being constructed. They’re more like small moons, around the same size or even larger than Keepstars. The Triglavian vessel is more like a large Promethean titan instead of being on the same scale as Iapetan titans.

[Baron_Redwolfe]

I found an image that may help better explain it, I don’t know how many remember this.

This is considered the Caldari Omnya IAPATUS Titan.

[Sibylla_Aldanar]

For perspective, the Leviathan is around 18km long. That would make the Omnya-class Iapetan titan much larger than a Keepstar.

And the best part is, it’s not even the largest Iapetan titan out there. The absolute largest ship ever constructed in the history of New Eden is the Amarr Emperor Ship (and remains so to this day), noted to be the progenitor of the titan-class vessels as a whole.

Therefore we shouldn’t really be surprised at the size of the Triglavian vessels being built, seeing as they don’t come close to matching the size of actual Iapetan titans (though they will certainly make up for it through sheer technological superiority).