Are you taking the plunge on PvE? Then allow PvE corps! (Like NPC corps, just for high sec)

(Grek Noban) #1

This is the first comment about the game on Steam:

Did you read it? I suffered the same. Went to a corp, got ganked outside of Amarr (I was in a shuttle… who ganks a shuttle?) and realized that, if you’re in ANY corp, you WILL be wardecced by pirates. Help from the Help Channel went something like: “This is EVE. Trade in Hek”. For a newbro, trying to have a constant income to afford loses, who wants to build things and sell them in Jita or Amarr, this is not possible/desirable. So, what do you do? You leave the corp you’re into, of course. Get into the NPC corp (where most people are just drop into and don’t share anything in common) and then you’re playing a single player game. And you leave it, after some time.

Is that desirable? I guess the new PvE content is addressed to PvE players. Then give us what we want! Give us PvE corps that can be subsidiaries of NPC corps (as a lore justification) and can ONLY build structures on high sec and (most importantly) can’t be declared war upon or declare war. All the traders, miners, PvE explorers, builders, haulers, etc. will finally have a place to join other people with our same way of thinking.

Do you want new people to fight in fleets, like most of us do, without risking everything and having to forfeit PvE missions and live in null sec as a drone for big corps? Then give us PvE corps, where we can organize ourselves to fight PvE content in fleets. Where we can have marks of honor in our ships for each “big boss” defeated. Where we can fight NPC fleets like if they were a puzzle, where we have to figure out or have an excellent strategy to defeat them (Like most bosses in RPG games). Give us exciting settings with exciting enemies (or combination of enemies, like in D&D encounters).

Do you want to keep new people by making them socialize as soon as possible? Give us PvE corps, where they can safely explore the game they have and we can teach them the ropes, without being abused by the big corps and sent to null sec without ever seeing an agent or an incursion.

Please, make it so. It’s so very frustrating wanting to socialize and fight in big battles, having to beg in fleets with no corp so we are not being chased by pirates. The idea it’s a merge between an NPC and a PC controlled corp, with limitations so it can’t be abused by PvP players.

It’s just an idea, but it’s something very missed and lacking, if you want to cater to PvE players. You can even hear the latest “Talk in Stations” podcast where old and experienced players “almost” invoke the same idea. They ALL know this is something very needed but, for some reason, it’s not in the game.

Thank you for the new PvE content, but please, let us be PvE players.
Thank you in advance.

(Mike Voidstar) #2

This is going to get rough.

I sympathize with you somewhat, though somehow I’ve managed to run a small corp for years without being wardecced.

Sadly, EVE is a griefer’s paradise/domestic abuse simulator where you will be blamed for being the victim and your attacker made out to be a hero.

Of course they get around this by redefining ‘grief play’ just for EVE… but there it is. It’s not an MMORPG, it’s a masochistic version of battlefield in space where you fight endlessly with no point, and any thought to building something is just an invitation for others to come blow it up because they can.

There has been some suggestions in the past to do something similar, but I can tell you for free that the concept of putting ships or structures in space without them being vulnerable to attack won’t happen unless you want to fit a cloak to your ship.

(Black Pedro) #3

There are no “pure” PvE players in Eve. The game is designed to always put you at least at theoretical risk to other players while you are engaging PvE, and in competition with the other players. If you want the rewards of being in a corporation, they must come with the responsibilities and risks of being in a corporation.

That said, the idea is basically a good one. There is absolutely no compelling reason why the social tools and social benefits of corporations need to be tied to corporation wars. There could and should be another tier of corporation or alternative in-game social structure players can form who don’t want the added risks and responsibilities of wars but just a place to socialize and a shared identity. Basically an organization subject to all the restrictions of the NPC corp (sorry, no invulnerable Upwell structures) but immune from wardecs.

This idea has been around for a long time. You can see them discussed in the CSM X minutes (page 19) for example. I think almost everyone agrees such a thing would be a good thing and it is a shame that CCP has been unable to find any development time to move forward on it.

I would say though, and this may be why CCP has been unable to make this idea a reality, is that it does offer little more that cannot be currently done with a shared chat channel and perhaps some out of game tools like a Discord. There are already a large number of player organizations that exist outside the corporation mechanic and while I agree it would be better to have such affiliations and shared identity as part of the game client for immersion and discovery purposes, you can largely create this functionality today.

Still, even if the vagaries of game development mean that that this idea may not ever see the light of day, a good idea is a good idea.


(Lugh Crow-Slave) #4

You can’t do anything in eve without engaging in pvp

(Scipio Artelius) #5

These two aspects are incompatible with what EVE is.

If players want the possibility of building structures, then those structures must be able to be killed. They provide a lot of advantage to Corporations.

The alternative, is an idea that CCP floated 4 years ago, to introduce more social tools, so that NPSI communities, NPC characters, etc. have access to more ways to interact, but without the advantages of full corporations. That would provide greater access to the social aspects of EVE, with wardec immunity.

However, if you are having issues with wardecs and your Corp CEO doesn’t know how to help you to keep having fun, hit me up in game and I’ll try to help out.

(Jasmine Deer) #6

One issue I could see arising with the concept of wardec-immune “Social Corps” as they have been termed before is a group could hold their assets in lowsec in the name of a regular corporation but keep the defenders of those assets in a social corp.

Those players can then fly in and out of highsec immune from any wardec even though they constitute the fighting force for the protection of those assets.

This doesn’t strike me as an intended use for a Social Corp.

Now you might say that nothing stops that setup from happening now, just having a group of friends in NPC corps or disposable corps that hang out in a common player chat channel that can be called upon when required. It just happens to be harder to maintain cohesion and esprit de corps in a more informal setup.

Other than that I’m in favour of Social Corps provided they can’t hold economic assets (giant space statues paid for with PLEX might be ok ).

Hoping someone can point out the flaw in my thinking here.

(Merin Ryskin) #7

Yes, that’s exactly the point of EVE. Unlike in other games, where any accomplishment can be achieved as long as you dedicate enough hours to grinding for it, successfully building something in EVE requires real skill and failure is always a possibility. That makes your accomplishments in EVE mean something, and it’s what makes EVE worth playing. Take away that threat to have random people destroy your stuff just for the sake of destroying it and you make success much less special. Instead of being a reward for being the best of the best success becomes little more than a visible indicator of how many hours you’ve spent playing EVE.

(Merin Ryskin) #8

That said, “social corps” make sense as long as they don’t provide any advantages over NPC corps outside of making the user interface for the chat system less awkward. That means:

  1. No structures, period. You don’t get to make your highsec structures immune to the only potential threat to them by giving ownership to a “social corp” that consists of a single alt.

  2. Minimum 11% tax rate that is lost instead of going to the corp’s wallet. If you want to avoid the tax penalty of NPC corps you have to face the same PvP risks as everyone else. Any corp-wallet tax that the social corp wants to set is in addition to the base 11%.

  3. No ability to join FW or control 0.0 space. Fighting a PvP war is inherent to the concept of these things.

  4. No special treatment by GMs. If someone manages to infiltrate your corp, gank everyone, and steal the corp’s assets that’s just too bad. You don’t get everything refunded just because you call yourself a PvE group. Anything done within the game mechanics is acceptable even if it conflicts with your dreams of being a safe place to PvE.

  5. This is not specific to the concept of social corps, but the OP’s suggestions of new PvE content can not in any way grant immunity to PvP. No fleet-only instances, immunity to suicide ganking, etc. More interesting PvE content is fine, but it needs to follow the basic rules of EVE that you are at risk of PvP at all times and the only question is how much someone is willing to invest to kill you.

In short, social/PvE corps should be nothing more than a way to fix the interface hassle of trying to organize a group within a NPC corp. They should never, under any circumstances, be a way to gain an advantage over standard player corps.

(Buoytender Bob) #9

All solid ideas.

How about adding the ability to have a rent free/reduced cost office at a NPC station as a hub for corporate activity.? Such office wouldn’t add to the overall monetary strength of these new type of corps, but would serve as an anchoring point for group activity. While I agree that you can already create the atmosphere of what the OP is looking for with the tools available now, I’m all for the encouragement of more group activities in EVE.

(Grek Noban) #10

That’s a fairly good point. Well… as PvE players usually don’t leave the Empire, NPC stations can provide a similar function to a player owned Citadel. As @Buoytender_Bob establishes, perhaps “renting” or “buying” a space in an NPC station to store assets, set taxes for their own members, etc. fulfilling some roles of a Citadel (Excellent idea, that one).

Thanks a lot for the offer. I really appreciate it. But I want to be able to do the main story arcs without being killed by pirates 100% of the time, outside trade hubs, without repercussions to them. Single player game it is, for me (At least until I complete my goals and get a decent amount of ISK :wink: ).

(Scipio Artelius) #11

If you’re playing solo and are concerned about Wardecs, you could always consider remaining in an NPC Corp.

You’ll pay tax at 11%, butare completely immune from Wardecs all together.

The tax might seem unappealing, however war losses could be larger if you aren’t sure how to handle a war while maintaining your play.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #12

cheaper to just keep making 1 man corps

(Old Pervert) #13

Took the words right out of my mouth lol. Saw the subject, figured what the post was about. Read the OP, and almost cringed.

@Grek_Noban Eve is a PVP game. It has PVE elements to it, but it is at it’s core a PVP game. Yes, CCP WANTS players to be forced into PVP. They want an open sandbox where any kid can come along and kick over your sand castle. They also want you to be able to grab a couple of your buddies and kick the ■■■■ out of the kid afterwards.

A direct resolution to your problem would be to join a sov null alliance; PL, Goons, etc. They have massive infrastructure, massive swaths of space, solid intel networks. You can PVE to your heart’s content in their space, with plenty of warning for most of PVP engagements headed your way. Yes you’re vulnerable to PVP, but only if you aren’t trying to pay attention. Yes you might take the occasional loss, but the profits in being out there greatly outweight those costs.

(Daichi Yamato) #14

Social corps are a pretty well established idea. Absolutely zero benefits over an npc corp though.

You get no structures and pay 11% tax on isk rewards (and lp pls!).

(Sonya Corvinus) #15

Mike, griefing is against the TOS. I’d recommend reporting it if you see someone griefing so appropriate action can be taken.

(Lukett MyDabb) #16

what are your thoughts on everyone else’s amendments to it, I’m actually quite surprised that alot of the posts are how it can be better made, not just responding with “This is eve” when This is really EVE.

(Cade Windstalker) #17

As long as the corp still has to pay the NPC tax I don’t see any reason why something like this couldn’t exist. Basically all the limits of an NPC corp (no structures, tax, no FF, ect) but you get your own corp chat.

You get out of NPC corp chat though and you get to sort of establish your own identity, which is basically the entire value proposition in the idea.

(Daichi Yamato) #18

Ok no ‘tangible’ benefits lol.

I’m one of the biggest supporters of social corps. Been pushing it for years.

(Lugh Crow-Slave) #19

You can and people have done that with chat channels. And those take 0 dev time

Ironically it’s ganking groups that would most benefit from this. They can create reputation and recognition without risking war decks

(Cade Windstalker) #20

Yes, but there’s a distinctly different feel with being a part of a chat channel vs a corp. Other people can’t see that you’re in a channel unless they’re in it, you can be in multiple channels vs just one corp, and a channel has trouble defining identity, leadership, ect compared to a corp where the roles and other things are defined by game mechanics.

Ganking groups don’t want notoriety and ease of identification, it makes them easy to spot. I can’t set every NPC corp in the game to -5 or -10, that’s worthless, but if I can do it to a specific corp then that’s fantastic.

While I certainly agree this shouldn’t be a huge priority I think it would help people establish more intermediate communities that are smaller than groups like Eve Uni but can act as an intermediate point between NPC corps and Null alliances and can take in newbies where they can make friends and learn.