Assault ship changes

lulz. You didnt answer the question

EDIT: Its cool yo. I am bored harshing on your posts. Have fun rabble rousing!

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Because base speed gets multiplied by skills and prop mods. So a high base speed means a high modified speed.

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i dont like any of these changes
raw dps for retri instead of tracking
why
was retri too op or something so they have to nerf it

jaguar is no longer a passive shield arty frig
now it just steals its role from hawk

and i guess ishkur gets 50mb base drone bay so it gets a free buff for no reason

and in the grand scheme of things
assualt frigs meta still sucks overall

try harder please ccp
this meaningless garbage is just annoying and unnecessary

either fix afs properly or just leave them alone
instead of pretending youre fine tuning them like some kind of primadonna

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I don’t either. I would like to keep the tracking bonus on the Retribution.
And all of them need better capacitors.

The assault damage control is a fail attempt in its current state because it takes 35gj to activate and if you want to pin a battleship, one heavy neut will offline all assault frigates before you can turn on the 2 second invulnerability and you will get roasted before you even get into scram range.

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20% less PG to fit 25% more turret hardpoints with. Sounds reasonable to me. /s

I’m gonna stick with my initial assessment of the ADC- it’s a garbage idea for AFs that has all the efficacy of a finger bandage applied to an arterial wound.

You’d think that after almost a decade of an entire ship class being damn near useless, with PLENTY of community feedback/ideas on what should possibly happen to rectify the situation that something reasonable would happen to AFs now that devs are actually looking at them.

FFS, CCP you get not just free but PAYING focus group participants, it shouldn’t be this hard of a process. At this point, maybe you should just give AFs the CQ treatment and reimburse SP. :roll_eyes:

While that is useful as a general hueristic, it is not factually true and leads to poor judgments if used without reflection. The problem you seem to have encountered is that you leave off the (Thrust / Total Mass) portion of the equation.

Thus leading you to the mistaken impression that similarity between AF and Inty base speed means a similar final speed. That is an erronous judgment because of the mass differences.

Hope I cleared that up for you!

EDIT: It saddens me to think that basic knowledge of game mechanics has atrophied to such a high degree over the past 4-5 years. Hopefully, I am wrong in thinking that and I am just getting trolled.

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No.

Base speed (effected by skills) x prop modifier (also effected by skills) = max ship speed.

Mass/agility effects acceleration, deacceleration, orbit speed, and actual orbit vs desired orbit. Not max speed.

The only situation this changes in is oversized/undersized prop mods.

sigh

Mass (but not agility) directly effects the speed of a ship while under any prop mod – over sized or not (did you really think CCP made a special set of mechanics for wrongsizing prop mods?) – and is the entire reason why adding plates will lower your MWD speed but not your “cruising” speed.

Go fire up a fitting tool if you don’t beleive me. Compare speed (both MWD on and MWD off) to a fit with and without plates.

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On a different tangent…
Looking at the Assault Damage Control module.

On a HAC this looks immensely powerful. Can tank a Drifter Battleship with this. It is a mini-SOS module.
Just swapping the DCU for the ADC II on an armor-buffer Ishtar gives a million EHP with 1600 T2 fit.

Hmmm… :thinking:

Im not too sure of these extreme defense on demand abilities… Sounds a lil too much like some other fantasy games defensive cooldowns.

someone explain how the module works and why it takes a slot instead of being incorporated into the hull itself

Okay so it is a low slot module that you fit on an assault ship. That can be an assault frigate or a HAC.
You can only fit one like a regular damage control.
You can activate the damage control like we used to and you get +95% shield, armor and hull resistance for 16 (meta) to 19 seconds (Shadow Serpentis one) then it turns of and you have a bad version of a regular damage control with less shield and armor resist than the t2 damage control but both give you the +40% hull resist, except the t1 and meta ones.
After only 2.5 minutes cool-down, you can turn it on again.

So except for the changes to the jaguar and Retribution, the assault ships remain as bad as they have been but you can tank a drifter doomsday with a HAC now.

Weeeh -ish

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HI :}

Summary of Assault frig requested changes:

Roll bonus
(Removed) 50% sig reduction while mwd is on (Not needed anymore because of ADC, also not useful in current meta as rapid lights hit for same damage no matter what same for drones.)
(Added) +50% capacitor capacity (much stronger capacitors needed for the class in general)

The new speed is really nice thanks for that.
no less than 3 mid slots (2 mid’s let enemies disengage when ever they feel like it which is horrible for solo pvp)
no less than 4 weapons (200+ dps at close ranges, less and the ship becomes too weak eg the new jag is really weak)

Cpu/Powergrid:
In my opinion a ship shouldn’t need fitting modules to fit a standard fit, only if your upping modules to max or over-sizing them, the jag suffer’s terribly with fitting, I know that this is only the first balance attempt and hence why its on Sisi so just sharing my input :]

Good dps throughout the class (The name Assault suggests offence)
With decent capacitor it might allow Assault frigs to kite with 1 rep running, which would be very unique to the class, something I don’t really see ships doing. (The jaguar atm has really horrible dps outclassed completely by the hawk even with a speed advantage I think the hawk has 2-3x more dps? Being able to shoot into a resist hole only ups dps by 20% around) With the current meta if your ship doesn’t have enough dps to break the enemies tank what ends up happening is that it gives the enemy time to bring lots of reinforcement’s and then you just get blobbed, this is why the hawk/harpy/enyo is so much better than the old jag/vengeance and so on, although people really only used jags in fleets as hard scram suicide tackle which any assault frig can now do because of ADC no need to make a ship have really bad dps just to do that.

ADC (Assault damage control)
The damage immunity favors high DPS ships (Hawk, Harpy, Enyo), the current jag and vengeance really miss out on the amount of damage done during this time, these ships have utility high’s thou with better capacitors these ships could fit neut’s and if ADC had a bonus of increased neut drain during this time the lower dps more tany ships would not be missing out on ADC as much then as they will have a higher chance of breaking the enemy tank during this time.

An idea, move capacitor batteries to low slot rather than mid slot.

Another idea might be to make player progression more fluid with the wolf (more mids than lows, shield wolf would feel a lot more minimatar) flowing into the vaga(hopefully 5mids :]) into the sleipnir and the jaguar flowing into the munnin (shield, missile) into the claymore. Maybe the rifter can get +1 mid and -1 low so that it can become shield rather and flow better with the rest of the line.

To me minimatar is iconic for shield’s, no need for armor, if we wanted armor + missiles we could go amarr or if we wanted armor + guns we would go gallente, caldari have always been the snipers so short ranged minimatar shield + missile wouldn’t step on caldari toe’s, while short range brawler armor + guns steps on gallente toe’s.
I would also like to reference the minimatar fleet bonus’s which are shield + skirmish, which emphasis the minimatar way even more :confused:, by making the wolf shield would make a lot of people that think they lost the jag a lot happier as well, because they will still have their shield/auto ship just please don’t nerf the wolf’s dps in the process it’s dps is pretty balanced with the rest of the other assualt frigs.

P.S. removed a massive post and summarized it for you guys.

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In the faction intro and race selector if that is the term, it states that Minmatar ships are fast shield tankers. However that overall design theme is poorly implemented with some their ships slot layouts… (looks at the tempest)

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Maybe now it does, Minmatar used to be jack-of-all-trades / use anything that works kinda ships. The had some of everything, shield boats, armour boats, gun boats, missile boats, drone boats.

Its only the last 5 / 7 years that they are becoming more shield focused.

Indeed when I started I was told by my corp at the time “You’re Minmatar you have to train everything!” after i asked what I should train first… If devs say fast shield tankers they need to make them fast shield tankers. (Just a peeve of mine.) Now would be a superb time to get the racial traits sorted on the t2 line of frigs and cruisers.

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yeah do that please. Rattlesnake or vagabond with rf large cap in low.
You’d kill all the armor BS. power diag+LCB+damage mod+DC in low, shield boosting in mid.

Haha maybe your right, or maybe it could be the first ever item that can be fit into mid or low :stuck_out_tongue: but not sure ccp code would even allow that.

Some of you may be interested in these grabs. Note Mass differences on all AFs (as alluded to earlier by elitatwo). Those were not listed in the hoboleaks DB comparison. Everything else is either listed on hoboleaks or remains constant at this time.

Capture1
Capture2

The wolf should indeed 4+km/s with nano’s! It will be even more fun when you add links, implants, and drugs.

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Yip wolf can go 4k, but its cap is almost half of gallente its mass is a good 15% higher reducing agility I think and because its armor if you rig or plate it its going all the way back down to 3k, and you can’t not rig it becuase it has massive holes in armor resi :confused:, mini has such nice shield resi don’t know why this isn’t a shield ship, if they make it shield they can reduce the speed a little to balance it out again.