The Armor timer was not DDOSd. And it ended just like the hull timer.
My point is that there is no point in joining a smaller group when only the biggest groups can offer you safety from these kinds of attacks. And if not from the attacks, that you at the very least have extremely well established means in place to get your stuff out should you get hit. There is simply no incentive to join a smaller group over a larger group if all you work for is going to get roflstomped in a matter of days. And suggestions like your’s add to this des-incentivization.
That’s right… it was a fight. A big one - the second biggest in Eve’s history, by metric of destroyed assets. So, your argument that people won’t show up is not served by citing X47 is it?
Not sure why you think that, I lost exactly nothing (okay I lost 4 Equite fighters during the actual fight). I evac’d my assets long before the structure timer.
I was on the losing side of that fight. We lost that keepstar. I feel no draw to join Goons, rather I feel a draw to go back to UALX and blow up another one of theirs.
IF your argument held any water, everyone would join the same alliance/coalition to avoid losing their assets (even the ones they’re flying). You forget that while nobody likes losing, the vast majority of us like fighting.
I am not talking about showing up, darling. I am talking about that people will not join smaller groups at all if they get confronted with bovine waste like X47-. Which in turn makes X47 like things even worse and even less of an appealing experience because even more meat shows up for them.
And again, I am literally a member of the smaller group. I feel no draw to go to Goons. And anyone who wants to shoot Goons will feel a similar draw.
You make it sound like Goons is too big to fail. They aren’t. They’re going to get their asses handed to them and then they’ll evac back to Delve, likely where the fight will continue on their home soil. Their problem is that they’re little more than a massive Indy group at this point. Yea they have a lot of toys, yea they take fights, but their combat experience approaches zero when you consider that they didn’t even know how pos anchoring mechanics work before this war (cyno jammers lol).
Their numbers only count for as long as their carebears can tolerate being away from their ratting and mining.
How many pilots is that? What is the skill level of most of those pilots? What are their commitments to showing up for fights?
The crux of your argument is that “the smaller side always loses”. But it doesn’t. We’ve handed Goons their asses on many fights. We’ve lost some, sure, but it’s not like we’re in a panic about what to do - we’re happy when they show up for a fight.
1 - Great idea. Would make cleaning up HS of all the low power structures actually worth a try.
2 - Can’t you already do that by having grid control on all gates in system? (well, ok, outside HS they could still jump in, but you can warp to a cyno too to intercept, can’t you?
In LS, I’d just covert bridge a BR in, and warp it to the citadel. Sneaking a bomber through a gate camp isn’t 100% certain, but it’s still pretty easy. In NS, we’ve got bubbles which certainly help, but it’s still pretty easy to force your way through a gate if you really need to.
The blockade being maintained directly on the structure offers defenders a single point to defend. They can use their assets already in place (the structure itself) to help break the blockade. I do agree that grid and gate control will be exceedingly important in LS and NS but it’s entirely too easy to circumvent all of that.
In HS you can’t control anything unless you’re planning on whelping millions of gank ships.
Considering that they outsmarted us with their titan tanks on the hull timer, I feel you are gravely underestimating them. The fact that they still raked in 7T ISK in bounties and 8T ISK in mining in July shows that their isk generating machine with the alts is working just fine and no carebear will feel the need to go back and rat or mine. They are still doing it.
Furthermore, you may not fee the draw. Hundreds of characters do every week, though. And as for individual pilots: 1287 characters on the destruction timer of just CONDI. On the armor timer I believe it was 1600 of just CONDI. I do not forget a thing. And their skills match those of other people just fine as it is clearly visible.
They don’t need to show up all for fights. Their numbers fuel an industrial complex that is orders of magnitude bigger than the next groups combined. They have enough characters to camp entire regions and still keep mining and ratting. The more people join them or are incentivize through measures like your suggestion, the worse the situation becomes.
“outsmart”… yes. Let me tell you exactly how it was:
Killah called for titans to X up for DD. There were 80 that X’d ready.
Killah broadcasted a target, said it in comms, typed it in fleet chat, and ordered the fleet to fire
only 20 titans actually DD’d. The rest were either DC’d or their module was perma-cycling.
DD target survived
We weren’t outsmarted. We weren’t outplayed. We were quite simply affected by the DDOS.
Yes, they did show up (incidentally, you failed to account for the thousands of players that had not yet jumped in on either side). They had to show up to that one, would have been a horrible morale blow to blueball their own members. They were always goign to kill that keepstar… that’s fine. Our goal was to make it expensive, not to save the keepstar. Keepstars are cheap and easily replaced. Assuming that the node had not been DDOSed, we would have seen at least another 9 trillion isk destroyed, probably a LOT more considering both sides batphoned their allies in (PL and TEST both burned their super fleets up for it).
If you look through the armor timer, you’ll see that for the first 6 hours of the fight, Goons were losing horribly. Almost 2:1 loss of titans, way more supers lost, way more faxes lost. They were literally feeding. Once our numbers started to dwindle, yes, they pushed that back up. But they had their numerical superiority for the entire fight, and it wasn’t until many hours into the fight that it actually counted for something.
A skilled group would have made it count from the beginning, not 6 hours later.
And again, their numbers don’t count for ■■■■. We’ve beaten them in spite of their numbers. Sometimes we’ve lost to them too. Can they ■■■■ on the super-small guy? Yea of course. This is Eve, that’s expected. The super-small guy doesn’t need to anchor their own citadel though, they can use freeported citadels from one of the larger groups - PanFam for example has freeports all over the place.
Funny story: They only lost titans there because they only jumped in a small contingent to stop the timer, not to fight the other side. We brought the full force, which is why those titans died. After they brought their full force, that ration changed quickly.
You do not get it, but that is fine. I am not interested whether you think you beat them or not. I know that people choose goons over other simply because they are huge and provide protection fo the incompetent ratters.
I made my points: Your suggestion does not solve single issue of structures. Your suggestion creates more problems. Your suggestion makes existing incentives to not join or create your own group even more pronounced and terrible. Thank you for proving that point with the following quote:
With this I rest my case in this as I have said everything that needs to be said about this utterly crap suggestion.