Attention PvErs that have been abused by suicide ganks, and war decs!

[Ms_Steak]

@Scoots_Choco

Would you be able to address the question of “why are you suggesting these changes?” or will you ignore the point and just spout off more nonsense?

Edit: taken from https://forums.eveonline.com/t/freighter-design-pass/153538

[Scoots_Choco]

Thanks for linking that @Ms_Steak I must have missed it.

I find his “explanation” lacking, because it does not seem like there is any real link between his proposed suggestions and his reasons why. Even more so, they’re just more unsubstantiated claims.

He doesn’t explain why something is “abusive to traders.” His argument of “invalidates a form of content” is interesting, given that his stance is to entirely eliminate a form of content itself. As for the last “explanation”, I don’t see any merit in that claim without any evidence to support it.

[darkestkhan_Eriker]

@Noori_Naarian

If you have been abused by suicide ganks, or war decs, I want to hear about it! I will publish your experiences on the web, and with any hope, we can generate change in eve.

You do realize that wardec changes were applied not so long ago, right?
And you do realize that ganking has only been nerfed so far?

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Noori_Naarian

The majority of players in eve are pve based

It’s much more likely to be the majority of characters, not players; most PvP players having alts for PvE.

• Most of them do not want to do pvp (60%+)

It’s easy to speak for the silent majority, they rarely know about or object to what others put in their mouths.

Citation needed.

[Noori_Naarian]

@Scoots_Choco

What is this “something” you are claiming?

In development we know there are many ways to tackle a problem. As coders we understand there are several ways to approach that, and even beyond that we have optimized and optimized forms of those approaches.

We can make many suggestions, and that is totally fine, we may even have preferred ways to approach it, but talking about those positions will lead us to mutually acceptable positions more often then not. the problem we have her eon eve forums is that a great many of the opinions are self-motivated, serving self, and not serving others. They are short sided, and do not benefit the overall games health.

Im not sure what needs to be done with warde spam, but i’d probably hard cap it at 5 (like the days just after privateer-war nerf (it was 3 then)) or massively increase the scale/cost of the wars.

@Scoots_Choco

Why? Why do you believe these changes are needed and/or necessary?

because the majority of players in mmos are pve based, and only a fraction of the population (12-13%) purely pvp’s (btw im one of them).

@Scoots_Choco

but don’t support them with arguments of why your suggestions will be good for the game or address a pressing issue that needs to be looked at.

I have supported them many times. For example, One of the key signs war-dec spam is not welcome (and with it nonconsensual pvp) is ALT CORPS that are placed to AVOID PVP.

“not supporting them” and you not agreeing with the support is not the same. I promise you, if this game does not adapt to this position, it will die, inside of 2 years. I can explain the complexity of it, if you’d like; but i would request you are honest about trying to understand it.

@Scoots_Choco

“why are you suggesting these changes?”

Redundant. It seems your an alt? I have supported my positions clearly, with industry metrics.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Noori_Naarian

it will die, inside of 2 years

People like you have been saying this since 2003, yet here we are playing a game 16 years later; a game that refused to bow down to the demands of the masses and outlived 90+% of the games that were its competitors.

[Noori_Naarian]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

Citation needed.

In all the games and mmo’s out there, is there more pvpers or pvpers? is there more pvp or pve servers?

[Scoots_Choco]

@Noori_Naarian

because the majority of players in mmos are pve based, and only a fraction of the population (12-13%) purely pvp’s (btw im one of them).

Do you have a citation for this, because the number seems to keep changing each time you bring up this claim.

@Noori_Naarian

One of the key signs war-dec spam is not welcome (and with it nonconsensual pvp) is ALT CORPS that are placed to AVOID PVP.

You do realize that the War Dec “spam” mechanic has changed very recently to address what appears to be the issue that you are bringing up. When you anchor your first structure, you are given a warning that it will make your corporation war-dec eligible. Have you been paying attention to the tool tips that are provided in the game?

Anchoring a structure should not be seen as a guaranteed right to players in the game, especially if you intend to anchor them in locations where they are likely to be noticed and attacked by other players (as you know, EVE Online is a game that encourages PvP) so if you are not able to defend your structures, you should reconsider your decision to anchor one.

Unless of course, you are suggesting that there is another aspect to the war-dec “spam” issue which I’m not aware of. Though, again, I’m confused about your point about “alt corps” being used to “avoid pvp”. If you are claiming alt corps can be used to be avoid pvp, why don’t you do this yourself to avoid pvp, as it seems you have some issues with it.

@Noori_Naarian

Redundant. It seems your an alt? I have supported my positions clearly, with industry metrics.

I’m not sure what you mean by “industry metrics.” Do you mean the video game industry overall, or specifically to EVE Online? Because I don’t believe there is much merit in translating statistics from, say for example, mobile gaming industry, and incorporating those into EVE Online.

Also, I don’t think I’ve seen you linking any source for your claim about 60% of people not wanting to engage in PVP. Please let me know if I’ve missed it, because I would love to see the source for this claim.

You say you’ve “supported” your arguments “many times”, but I don’t see it. Would you kindly link to me where you’ve provided support for your ‘suggestions’?

[Omnathious_Deninard]

@Noori_Naarian

only a fraction of the population (12-13%) purely pvp’s (btw im one of them).

Wow, this is something else, you are a pure PVP player, who operates a high sec industry Corp and had an absolute meltdown when your citadel was attacked, both here and on Reddit.

https://forums.eveonline.com/t/this-is-abuse-and-ccp-has-made-eve-pay-to-win-players-should-be-outraged-and-know-about-these-issues/154073/101

[Ms_Steak]

@Noori_Naarian

the problem we have her eon eve forums is that a great many of the opinions are self-motivated, serving self, and not serving others. They are short sided, and do not benefit the overall games health.

Hypocrisy in its finest (worst?). You are a high-sec hauler/miner and all of your suggestions were “self-motivated, serving self, and not serving others”.

@Noori_Naarian

purely pvp’s (btw im one of them).

Is yet another lie.

[Noori_Naarian]

@Scoots_Choco

Do you have a citation for this, because the number seems to keep changing each time you bring up this claim.

No, it does not. The numbers i am posting are for different things.

• around 13% of players are pure pvp focused.
• around 87% of players are pve focused.
• these values can jump up to 10% based on the game
• around 82% of players are casual, while the other 18% are hardcore
• around 46% of players in an mmo will enage in pvp. (total population), though the majority of them are pve based.
• only 0.8% of population support hard loss pvp systems (like dropping all your loot)

the above values in some area’s will shift, but usually no more then 5%, with the exception of pve *focus players shifting into a more pvp driven focus.

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

Your claim is a general one that applies to the industry as a whole; as an average the number is probably about right.

@Noori_Naarian

The majority of players in eve are pve based

• Most of them do not want to do pvp (60%+)

However, you specified Eve players, and Eve occupies a niche in the industry. Without further citation your statement is merely a generalisation based on averages, and may well not apply; an average requiring outliers.

It also depends on how you define PvP, if you limit it to combat only then certainly there are far fewer PvP players than PvE players in any given MMO.

If you consider all kinds of competition between players to be PvP interactions, as CCP do, then there’s very little in Eve that isn’t PvP of one kind or another.

[Scoots_Choco]

@Noori_Naarian

No, it does not. The numbers i am posting are for different things.

• around 13% of players are pure pvp focused.
• around 87% of players are pve focused.
• these values can jump up to 10% based on the game
• around 82% of players are casual, while the other 18% are hardcore
• around 46% of players in an mmo will enage in pvp. (total population), though the majority of them are pve based.
• only 0.8% of population support hard loss pvp systems (like dropping all your loot)

the above values in some area’s will shift, but usually no more then 5%, with the exception of pve *focus players shifting into a more pvp driven focus.

I hate to sound like a broken record, but do you have a citation for any of these statistics?

[Jonah_Gravenstein]

@Noori_Naarian

• around 13% of players are pure pvp focused.
• around 87% of players are pve focused.
• these values can jump up to 10% based on the game
• around 82% of players are casual, while the other 18% are hardcore
• around 46% of players in an mmo will enage in pvp. (total population), though the majority of them are pve based.
• only 0.8% of population support hard loss pvp systems (like dropping all your loot)

As above, this covers the whole industry demographic, it is a generalisation.

What it doesn’t cover is individual games, or their niches.

That 0.8% of the population that you claim to support hard loss systems, they play Eve.

[Noori_Naarian]

@Jonah_Gravenstein

However, you specified Eve players, and Eve occupies a niche in the industry. Without further citation your statement is merely a generalisation based on averages, and may well not apply; an average requiring outliers.

Actually, we can calculate these rates based on monthly economic reports. We can logically conclude that the majority of players are pve based; why do we know this? because the economy tells us that, being that it produces twice the amount of pvpers, that means, that logically there is at least twice the amount of pve characters then pvp. Its also safe to say, the majority of pvers do missions, or ratting.

sorry to say, there is no escaping that truth. Players of eve are more largely pve based.

[ISD_Dorrim_Barstorlode]

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