Other long range ships are Battlecruisers and Battleships. Which are really easy to scan down and ambush with a warp in of a close range doctrine, or they are susceptible to stealth bomber runs. HACs are more nimble and can escape any such trap, or will take much less damage from bombs.
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Meta is getting shaken up which is good.
Not sure i like the untoched kinetic look down on damage, on the cerb though while the munnin gets flat 5% damage modifier accros the board.
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And that is why I have pointed out and others as well. It will change nothing. Actually the Muninn being changed to a missile boat only adds a longer time to do alpha. But you can extend the range on that ship with missiles a bit more than turret Muninn. If nullsec actually did tests they would find the Muninn is the Middle Range HAC versus everything else on the grid. But you knowâŚF1 Blob and Nullsec drives Titanic.
@Malak_Starfire if you want to negate bombâŚADCU will actually work in negating damage applied. It can combine with a fleet boost like âEvasive Maneuversâ and shutting off MWD to make a bomb attack alot less effective.
@Saisio_Arisu the ship hull meta will be shaken up. The Range Strategy Meta not so much. Its a problem that CCP will never really counter. And the changes can be fairly countered with fits and boosts. It probably means a Muninn will no be able to target out to 300km and probably hit in falloff around 170km anymore. [Granted though that Missiles allow it to hit even further now. LOL] They are just tired of everyone copying them. There were counters but the nullsec boys didnât want to deploy them. Mostly because the spam of building of Muninns made them cheap. But CCP canât fully nerf player mindsets, and nullsec is proving that fact a reality in EVE Online every day.
They will have massacred the MuninnâŚand made something else the new Monster for nullsec to set the CCP Nerf Caveman on.
Uh yeah, I wasnât talking about HACs having an issue with bombers. Iâm saying that the ships that would take over long range sniping (BCs and BBs) have that countersâŚmaking it viable in the sense of balance.
To be honest I am not 100% sure, but it looks like CCP is throwing the Navy ships into that role. But time will tell what will work out.
I feel like overall changes are rather positive.
However, there is no mention of some ships that really need a change:
- Apocalypse and Apocalypse Navy.
They really need a damage bonus.
- Rokh
Should also get a damage bonus
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Missiles can be tanked with signiture or firewalled, where arties didnât really have that problem when it comes to giant fleets.
Sure you can technically get under the guns of arties in a big fleet but with the sheer number of players not everyone will even fit under the guns.
So the change is good it opens up more ship variety even if people still use munnins its fine its just that munnins arent the be all and end all.
Iâm curious if people will use ham cerbs now, seems good.
@CCP_Aurora , any chance to lower the volume of Noctis so that Orca could carry Noctis and mining barge inside at once.
Considering you made adjustments for caps to fit 2 battleships, perhaps indy mini carrier could carry 2 indy related ships.
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Itâs just me or youâve invented stealth bomber that not stealth and not bomber?
Looks over and hides the Mordus Legion Cruiser OrthusâŚwhatever do you mean? [And that one is worse because of flat damage bonus across all missile types and speed bonus to all missiles.]
Ironically that is what inspired me.
You can do the same with the Gnosis as well. Brisc Rubal actually flew one of those during a Karma Fleet Stream.
Iâm not a fan of the Amarr losing 1 out of 3 battleships that deal good laser damage without caping themselves out.
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and dies to a solo frigate.
Yes,
EoM based Armageddon Navy Issue.
SAVE THE MUNINN!! Turrets > missiles in terms of fun.
Allow Vagabond to fit missiles or turrets. Multiple weapon choices = more versatility and fun.
Drive by missile Vagabond with multiple volleys hitting at once = true Minmatar style and tactics.
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SAVE MUNNIN!!!
It needs SIX missiles not five!
Brutor way is only way!
Add MORE guns!
Horrible updates coming with uprising! Instead of giving people more things to like in addition to what they already like CCP thinks it would be a good idea to destroy what people enjoy and force them to use something else.
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My orca sits as well⌠such a waste
Destroy a dominant ship that has been the only go to ship for how many years now?
Keep dreaming this update is amazing.
Itâs still good its just not the only ship to use.
Next up maruader nerf 
You are also talking out your ass you fly a missile loki, minimatar + missiles, so why complain about the munnin change?
Also you havenât gotten a single kill with a munnin on your entire killboard not a single one.
@ResonanceOfWar The reasons why players overuse a hull is fairly simple. Laziness and Cheapness
I have looked at the Muninn on Reddit with some of my crazy fits, and even pitted it against other HACs.
The Ship is fully middle ranged in the HAC line up if you really put your head to it. The ship requires alot of really stupid upgrades and modules even to get to 145km [that appears to be the max range for T2 equipment] and 175km seems to be the total max range with overheat/implants/officer/faction mods/rigs. Compared to an Eagle which can currently get to the 300km range in both sensor and weapon range. Yep the HAC complainers have been completely mum on this.
The Muninn became the âAK-47â of FCs because its baseline sensor range was 100km, which mean you could easily with one or two upgrades get 130km with guns about 125km or so depending on ammo and fit. But only Artillery. Ironically the ACs [Autocannon] Muninn only has a 50km max range with specific ammo and for everything else is much closer.
Could CCP just nerfed the sensor range. That would make sense. But there are fleet boosts, remote boosts, and some boosters that affect various traits of the ship. And the pressure of the whining nullsec guysâŚwho didnât like the Muninn but didnât want to experiment with other ships and HACs to counter. Everyone hates the Muninn in nullsec because its the mid-range âAK-47â of its ship class. And the doctrines of Muninn are pretty similiar when I remember the joke about identifying which corp was flying which doctrine by their fit and ammo usage.
Muninn could be completely outranged by Caldari HACs easily. Out Alpha/DPS by Gallente Brawler Deimos. And outranged and out alpha by Ishtar. Although CCP hasnât done anything to the most obvious violator of the botting policy. [the changes seem to be a small slap to the hand in comparison to the rest of the HACs] The only faction of HACs I have heard little of is the Amarr HACs. Although the missile one supposedly gets more usage than the laser one.
@Xzanos I personally think they should keep the turrets and just buff turret/missile mixture for Minmatar ships to add flexibilityâŚnerf the sensor range for the Muninn maybe shave some armor/shield points baseline off. And test it first. Slapping missiles all over it, doesnât bode well. Because we will have the same problem later down the road, but with massed high ALPHA missile barrages which can hit from longer ranges than the current turret ships. And I donât think Nullsec likes Macross Missile Massacres eitherâŚprobably adds more TIDI at minimum I think.
@Spc_One you can currently mimic EoM Navy Armageddon if you fit blasters/rails [another favorite of EoM] You can do some passive/active shield regen sheenigans with the middle and lows of a Armageddon Navy Issue. Higher skills preferred, but its a really funny sight when you hack off players with a really weird fit Amarr ship either mimicking EoM or some variant like it. I had a T1 Mauler for the Cruiser 1v1 I found really powerful because its armor resists with T1 kit could get to 81% which was higher than most cruisers in there. And I used rails on it to really annoy people with it. Forced several draws.
@Korm_Rayh alot of ORCA players have noted their ships are now very big paperweights. Confirming some issues I found in cross referencing mining data pre-patches and post-patches. If you use the new crystals you take a 20% haircut from your baseline intake, and that is after the fact that CCP also nerfed CPU on some ships [Prospect really hurts in this field] and even limited what we can fit. Never mind the destruction they wrought by listening to âSomeone in Particularâ who had never used Frostline Omnivores, and never read the tin and the concept therein. Frostline Omnivores were made during the Operation Frostline. [We even have skins for that event] Which introduced probably one of the least understood and underused/misused ship lines the Expedition Frigates. Nullsec views the Prospect as a mobile covert cyno. And almost everyone else a gas huffer. Although this ship economically is inferior to the Venture because of changes to modules. And right now is languishing in disuse. The Endurance does get some more use, but nullsec mining fleets actively punish people for using Expeditions.
Better said the Frostline Omnivore Module was designed from the get go to allow Expedition Frigates the capability to swap mining modules and ice miners on the fly. It had a bonus to increase speed of ice miners and increase yield of mining lasers. [There might have been some mining laser speed stacking issue but the amount of time for mining lasers unboosted wasnât all that problematic like about 10sec shaved off?] At the time it was the fastest way to mine ice without having a booster [great for solo miners] And it had a stipulation that it couldnât be used with T2 modulation equipment. I made the mistake of showing up on the stream and wanting a CSM member to check something with their Roqual [because I didnât have one] and needless to say once everyone saw what the ânewâ Rocqual boost could doâŚthis personâŚand members of dead TEST allianceâŚlobbied really hard to nerf this module as well as to make it apply to modulated modules.
Petty Nullsec politics and incompetence to understand the inbuilt balance to a module were killed that day. And Winter Nexus for alot of newbros was ruined, and Expeditions regulated to very niche solo mining actions. Currently to even achieve close to the solo unboosted ice mining proficiency that was possible back then, a player has to fit nearly 3B worth of ice mining modules into a 20-30M Endurance. [Which is insane.] Which was about 42sec ice mining laser cycle time.
@ResonanceOfWar do not speak of Marauder NerfingâŚit will enrage alot of people if CCP starts due to nullsec whining again nerfs something into the dirt.
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