Balance Updates Coming with Uprising!

Feature Previews & Feedback Balance and Mechanics
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Historically you come to a Muninn via a Rupture: Projectile to Projectile

The Onyx is a missile boat that stems from the Moa, a blaster boat
The redeemer is a laser boat which stems from the geddon, a missile boat
The Sacrilege is a missile boat that stems from the maller, a laser boat

Flycatcher, heretic, raptor, panther, vengeance, jaguar, huginn, every bomber also come to mind

this isnt a new thing

What is it that people don’t like about Muninns?

Specifically it is a cheap ship with insane natural resists (75/60/40/50 base), low sig, high speed, very long optimal range, high alpha with damage selection, couple that with the ADC it was obvious to see why it was such an optimal ship and spammed so much

But turning a Muninn into a missile boat which another race can do better seems redundant.

It depends what you mean by better, so far it has higher damage than the sac but with worst resists, however it is much more mobile

Almost makes T2 720 Arty redundant too since they’re not much use on a Vagabond.

Vaga with the new powergrid can very easily accomodate 720mm, you are also ignoring the sleipnir, hurricane, fleet hurricane, loki and cynabal, which all see regular 720mm use

I’m disappointed that the development of ships is moving away from the original racial characteristics as set out in the game I started playing in 2008.

missiles ARE an original racial characteristic for minmatar

I’m not convinced turning Muninn Online into Missiles Online

Why do you think it will be turned into missiles online? this change massively reduces the viability of long range light missiles and heavy missiles, while also increases the viability of turret based battleships

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Damned stupid comment. It is not that one cannot afford rigs, it is that these are utterly fundamental changes for very questionable reasons, and somewhat illogical as others have outlined. It is not just the rigs either - skills cost, plus the cost of the ships themselves. If one has focused on gunnery skills over missiles, they now have a redundant Muninn for example. The “month’s notice” you think is so considerate helps how? My post was addressed to @CCP_Aurora , not to people like you white knighting on CCP’s behalf.

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the other people who have said it is illogical haven’t set out why its illogical

this isn’t the first time that a ship has changed role, the geddon, vagabond, all carriers and supercarriers for example have changed previously, some multiple times.

you are acting like those skills have become worthless, when they haven’t, or that the ship will become worthless, which it won’t

Disagreeing with people whining that a ship, that has been requested to be changed for years, is finally being changed doesn’t mean that i’m whiteknighting CCP, there is still a long road to go in terms of balance fixes

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This is a feedback thread requested by @CCP_Aurora. Therefore, it is not for you to snipe at otherf people’s feedback, just because it does not agree with your opinions.

Just because CCP have done this before does not mean it is good practice. My beloved Orca sits largely idle because of CCP’s previous changes (and do not even dare to accuse me of having been an AFK miner), wrecking it as a good solo mining ship. Yes, I now largely mine with other ships, but I spent a lot of time and resource skilling into and buying that Orca. That is just one example.

I am glad you are content with the proposed changes, but let other people offer their comments in peace.

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you are correct it is a feedback thread, I am providing feedback on other peoples clearly wrong feedback lmao, you aren’t entitled to not be challenged on stuff because it might upset you

(and do not even dare to accuse me of having been an AFK miner)

I doesn’t matter if you were AFK or not, orca and rorq mining was absolutely cringe

wrecking it as a good solo mining ship

that was the point of the change lmao

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No, you are not entitled to judge other people’s feedback as wrong. Feedback is for CCP, not self-opinionated individuals like you. Back to your bridge now, you might miss a passing goat.

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I am absolutely entitled to do it as is everyone else, if people offer bad advice or incorrect feedback to CCP then it is almost a requirement to critique the feedback so that CCP gets the full picture instead of a biased one

Back to your bridge now, you might miss a passing goat.

ok miner

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When will this patch come to live? Before or after the Allaince Tournament?

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Also keep in mind that the Eagle already have shield bonuses as well, so it would lessen the identity of both Caldari HAC’s if they both had the same tank-traits.

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hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah breath hahahahhahahahahaha

Edit as apparently some people consider this to be spam as it stood:

Feedback always includes giving feedback on other people’s feedback. Especially when you consider their feedback to be misguided, or flat out wrong. No-one’s feedback is, or should be, above critique.

That gives the feedback more depth, making it more useful to those who requested it in the first place. Especially if it forces the person to explain why they think they way that they do.

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Which would be why the resist bonus on the Muninn is lower than the dedicated resist bonus on the eagle and sac

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Yes! This is EXACTLY what I want for my Ishkur! This is MY Ishkur now! So much Ishkur love!

HAC range OP; had to nerf HAC range, sure, whatever, I can work with that. My Diemos locking out to 100 or whatever it was with blasters was pointless anyway. Also more Vaga!

Rifter love? Excellent.

Navy love, good! 100% with you on the 'Geddon Navy being neglected and the Exeq Navy being tight on fitting.

I think the Belicose needs strategic viability rather than stat bonuses, but whatever, I got a character that can make use of that too.

Also, thank you for posting the reasoning behind these changes. Some of them I’m a bit hesitant about but the explanation helps and in a few really clears up what the goal is.

But seriously, do y’all have any idea what you’ve done with the Ishkur? You changed it in exactly the ways I dreamed but never expected to happen. You’ve nerfed my drone-fu a bit, but you’ve given me range control and a defensive bonus. You’re taking my slayer of PVE Gilas, Drakes, & Jackdaws and tackler of Tengus and turning it into a real PVP ship! I’ll be able to fit a web!

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Hope there is a balance update part 2 because StabberFI is currently pretty shallow, it now closely competes with the caracal in PG, a caldari ship, can barely fit artillery on it.

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it isnt really suited for arty much like the fleet scythe is only really built for dual 180s, it would be nice to have a little extra armor and powergrid on the stabber though

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vagabond
ensure it doesn’t become too strong

the problem with a vagabond is that it was overnerfed after the nano age, and never came back after that hit

vagabond is not a brawler, so it stays on orbit - away from webs, but not too far to keep the disruptor, and still doing some dps. “Some dps” is about 300 on 15km orbit. it was bad even 10 years ago, and nothing at all these days.

even vedmak has more agility and much more dps. cynabal - the same picture (also can use 425mm, so more falloff/dmg).

what about the famous vagabond speed? The last time I tried to catch miners on a vagabond in the ice field - they were simply faster than me, lol.

vagabond just has no role. long, long ago - it was low dps, but the fastest and most agile ship, so you could choose your fight. now - I can’t see how this ship could be fixed w/o boosting its agility and speed, or - making it just another close-combat brawler.

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Thank you for your reasoned contribution.

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A miner who flies HACs…

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if you actually flew HACs that wasn’t to a linemember level, you would have had a reasoned and thought out set of feedback to bring to this thread, yet you haven’t

you complained about having to swap rigs which isn’t feedback of the HAC change, just identifying an outcome that has happened in the past to many shiplines, and that it invalidates the skills you have trained when it doesn’t

i reiterate, ok miner

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Ok, i have no right to talk on the current meta because i don’t do fleet fights anymore. So consider all written below as an old-fart nagging.

First – muninn as a missile boat? srsly? Ok make a cerberus turret-boat then, it’ll be a great trade-off :rofl:
C’mon – muninn is an iconic minmatar ship, it’s always been an alpha-king, don’t just trash it out. Better to nerf it than make it some sacra-clone.

Second: in the “eve-glory-days” (I’m talking about 2007-2011) HAC fleets were used at medium ~40km( like muninns) and close ranges( armor hacs). So what are you talking about? What is the point of nerfing their 100+km optimals?

If nowadays they’re used at 100+km ranges then it must be 100+ ppl in a fleet, probably more. But nerfing just hacs won’t change much. It’ll be nagas/tornados instead etc. If there’s enough ppl in a fleet to make an alpha-pop meta work – there’s not much of a difference what ships are used. Yes, hacs probably were more suitable choice for their better survivability because of a sig+tank+adcu combination. But once again – the root of all problems is in alpha-pop mechanics when a fleet goes too large, not the hacs. You’re doomed to be in a nerf-circle forever until you’ll look at the main problem. And I don’t really have any reliable recipe to cure it, because big numbers = big damage sounds pretty legit for me. (btw some steps takken to “cure it” are one of the reasons why ships nowadays have so much tank that they can’t even kill each other 1v1 sometimes – which is just laughable).

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How about fix the cap regen on hacs down to normal T1 levels? it’s why they’re so good at low skill perma-mwd blobs, about as much as the range bonuses, but it doesn’t come up at all. It also enables some of the grossest active tanking that triggers me hardcore on a daily basis.

I can nitpick all these changes but probably nobody cares.