15% were “fully tanked”, but what was their cargo value? Did they use their tank to ensure that the cost to kill them was greater than the expected loot drop, or did they pack their freighter full of expensive loot and assume that “tank” means “invulnerable”?
A several-minute timer is not “protecting them from the wolves”. It’s protecting them from the incompetent wannabe-wolves that can’t figure out how to execute a proper gank. Idiots in untanked freighters with excessive value in their cargo will still die, because a properly executed gank is over in seconds. A long timer protects a freighter from two groups:
- Bad gankers who can’t organize a response effectively and have to hold the target indefinitely while they fumble around trying to look up market values of the cargo and assemble gank ships.
and
- Trolls who have no realistic ability to execute the gank but bump a target anyway, hoping the freighter pilot will pay a ransom out of sheer frustration or at least generate some amusing hate mail.
I fail to see why either of those groups deserves any consideration.
This change isn’t about making things easier for either of those groups, so it already doesn’t consider them.
What it does do is consider making things easier for freighters and I just don’t agree that it is needed.
I just don’t see a need for any change in the current mechanics, to favour freighters more than where the balance already sits.
Of course it considers them. Those two groups are the only people hurt by the proposal, and if we have a proposal that makes things easier for one group while having no other meaningful consequences why shouldn’t the change be made? I’m against making life easier for freighters if it comes at the expense of people who matter, but this is a win-win idea.
No other meaningful consenquences is rarely the case and not the case here.
Let’s hope that in the future, your playstyle doesn’t sit in the group of people that don’t matter.
Freighter pilots simply need to adapt to the environment, or die
No mechanic change is required.
People’s bad decisions on the other hand…
This is a blinkered view. Changes to mechanics should be based on what players are doing. And what players are doing are based on the choices and decisions of the players. Ignoring these decisions/choices when talking about mechanics changes is just outright stupid.
I know why Mike wants to ignore this, not because he is stupid, but because looking at the underlying behavior is not conducive to the changes he wants to make.
Again, if you want to argue that bumping without ganking or bumping for “too long” is bad, then make that argument and we don’t need a module. If bumping for 1 hour is “too long” then we can simply have CCP say, “Bumping for an hour is a no-no and you’ll get punished if you do it.” They could even add, “If we find you bumping for 59.5 minutes on a repeated basis we might be having a chat with for that too.”
We do not need to create a brand new module that allows people who are lazy to get out of a gank.
Please inject and train the reading comprehension skill.
Approximately 15% of freighters that were killed were fully tanked. Scipio noted that those were kills, not just ganks.
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That is precisely the argument being made, but rather than relying on CCP to come down on every individual account that does it the proposed solution is a module.
This is because there is no way to tell, short of calling a GM over to watch, if the bumping in question is an accidental collision or an aggressive act. Bumping does not leave an event in any log. If it did we could likely work out an even better solution, like just putting suspect timers or concord action on the bumping ship and letting nature take it’s course.
This isn’t like Botting, where the behavior is absolutely predictable. Lots of Bots every month or so get banned.
Its being used as an indicator on the likely preparedness of the pilot in question. Obviously we can’t actually know. It’s not even my argument to defend, they only brought out the numbers to point out the nearly 70% who didn’t tank at all.
I still maintain it does not matter what was in the cargohold. The mechanics should not favor one group over another, and right now they do, heaviliy so.
For which we do not need a module.
Did I write anything about intentional vs. accidental bumping? No.
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If you don’t get a GM to watch then there is no way to tell if the bumping is the sort that you want CCP to declare bad.
If there is no way to tell, then there is no way to make that bumping stop while allowing another.
So instead of relying on GM presence everywhere and when bumping occurs, we put the power back in the hands of the players to sort it themselves, with a module that limits bumping.
Accidental bumping for an hour…okay.
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There is no record of any bumping. The logs show nothing.
Without getting a GM there to actually see it, there is no way to prove you ever bumped at all, let alone for over 5 minutes.
Unless you are suggesting that they add in a way to record bump events?
That would work too. If they start tracking that we can likely find a way to tell when bumping is accidental and when it’s being used as aggression.
Then we can just concord the bumper and have done with it.
And here we see it. Mike’s big issue really isn’t bumping. It’s ganking. Previous claims to the contrary are now seen for what they are…lies.
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Actually the way to play the game is to team up with other players.
The socially inept have the choice to use additional accounts as a fallback.
But really, the gank squad is a team of players working together; an alt may not be enough, nor should it be.
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Of course it’s the case. The negative effects of the change fall entirely on people who don’t matter. We should not refrain from making changes just because people who are bad at EVE would suffer.
This is a terrible idea. Rules for GM punishment need to be clear and involve discrete and easily quantifiable actions, not merely a GM’s personal opinion that you have been bumping for “too long”.
Of course the mechanics should favor one group over another. Currently the mechanics favor competent gankers over ****ing idiots who fly overloaded freighters and beg to be ganked. This is 100% working as intended, and there should not be balance between the two groups.
Actually the mechanic favors a bumper. It doesnt favor the gank fleet per se because there could be no gank fleet in existence or for some period of time, a bumper holds a freighter indefinitely without penalty.
The sole point is, dont change ganking (it’s a play stlye), dont change bumping as it would just be a nightmare from a dev standpoint but a module offers a reasonable sense of balance so the bumper has to be as ready to be gank as it expects the freighter pilot to be ganked.
Bumping with a time limit… pure and simple.
As the OP, coming back to see the epic level of nerd-autism in this post is hilarious.
as far as I have seen most of those having an issue about length of time being bumped has nothing to do with gankers…
So really leave the ganking out of it…there is no ganker team…
just 1 Bumper and 1 freighter…8 hours later…how do you fix that?
Re-read OP, not only does it not mention any 8 hour bump, it specifically mentions the gank fleet.
False realities.
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