Feel free to share your study with a sample size >80k for whatever age of pilots and then we can talk again about how you feel about ganking.
Other than that I will not even read your post, since you have nothing to show but anecdotes.
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Sorry I think you confused me with someone who cared there. Easy mistake to make I know.
You write pretty big walls of tears about ganking for someone who does not care
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Agreed.
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*sigh*
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Weâre all here spouting off our opinions about internet spaceships. Donât try and pretend any of this really matters.
I canât seem to find your killboad @Kal_Murmur is that some kind of forum alt?
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Ohh Ohh do my killbaord next (trosken neirfallas is also me so donât forget about him too)
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I want to know how we can ban repeat bad post offenders from the forums.
Iâm not going to read this terrible thread, but will just chip in and say no. I hope you have a wonderful day.
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No, not all opinions are equal. See, when I form an opinion I tend to look at the work of people who actually made some effort looking into the matter of the topic, like for example CCP Rise, who went to great lengths to try to prove that ganking is bad for new player retention and makes a lot of people quit, but came to the conclusion that there is no such issue. Thatâs whatâs called an informed opinion.
Now that study may not be perfect, Iâm sure there could be done more to get an even better picture, but it is indefinitely better than some anecdotal evidence and gut feelings, which is what your view is based on, and thatâs called an uninformed opinion.
As you can see there is a pretty big difference there. So donât try to tell us itâs all just opinions when itâs not.
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Returning to OP:
I think the security status mechanics are working fine.
On CONCORD side, they leave it to players and wont flag someone that engages a flashy (-5).
Fac popo handles the rest.
The cost/effort of regaining sec status is fair.
Either run missions/DEDs etc, or Incursions, or hunt for clone tags, or buy them from others.
Anyone can grind missions/sites/Incursions, as they can tags, and the tags value is market regulated.
I actually admire them for taking data and trying to find evidence rather than just going off assumption. As I pointed out above though, they made several mistaken assumptions. First that the issue was players within the first 15 days leaving because of ganking. This is flawed because its usually new people losing things theyâve saved for that ragequit, so around the exhumer level. Guy starts playing, mines until they can buy that shiny hulk, and then someone blows it up for the lols. The second assumption is that wardec kills are âlegalâ and something players âsigned up forâ. Given that people have been complaining on here for at least a decade about unwanted and repeated wardecs, we know that isnât an accurate picture.
None of that is to say the rules should necessarily change or are bad (personally I think they need reworking, but hey everyone has an opinion), but taking CCPs methodology as a clear picture of why people leave is misleading. Iâd dearly love them to rerun that data with 30 & 60 days windows, and also run a set that measures the number of sub six month accounts that leave while under wardec or let their accounts expire within a month of a wardec.
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Agreed.
The CCP study is very narrow, and habitually misrepresented as something it was not.
The only one who makes assumptions and does not even try to validate them is you.
Also you seem to completely miss the part where they mentioned that only < 1% of people who quit mention ship loss, NO MATTER HOW as a reason why they quit, and that was about all the players not just the 15 day old newbros.
So tell me, why do you come here and pretend that those < 1% is a serious issue when it is a EXTREMELY SMALL MINORITY, and it is pretty obvious that > 99% have some other reason to quit which has nothing to do with what you cry about at all. I rather have CCP focused on those > 99% so that they actually fix stuff that makes people quit and not the stuff some extremely vocal minority cries about who canât handle it if the game isnât 100% save.
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I think you are confusing the 15day stat, with the overall stats for stated reasons of quitting.
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Few players bother to state why they quit, and may state a cause that they think matches their reason, but actually does not. A suicide ganked target may not be concerned so much with the loss of a ship, rather than mechanics that led to it, or a sense of unfairness regarding it etc.
TLDR: The study was very narrow, and very questionable in method, and subsequent validity, especially to draw conclusions like you do from it.
From a scientific method perspective, its not a strong study, and does not provide data with sufficient validity to draw conclusions as wide as yours.
Thats why @Loki_Orkund and I would very much like to see a better structured study.
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Letâs be honest, you donât want a better study. People like you always claim to make it look like they are reasonable people who are interested in the truth and obviously that is the only reason why you can disregard any already made studies and just claim that your gut feelings are somehow on the same level.
well they are not.
And until there comes a time where there actually is a better study, you and Kal here are basically not better than some anti-waxers who disregard scientific evidence because of personal believe.
There is no reason to continue this discussion, you have nothing to show for it anyway.
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We are being completely honest.
We want a better study.
Thatâs why we say so.
Are you calling us liars?
Why would we say we want a better study, if as you say above, we dont want one?
Makes no goddam sense what you are saying.
Now how about YOUR honesty?
Is it not true that honestly you DONT WANT a better study?
Why dont YOU want a better study?
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Coming from someone who talks to people like an angry 12 year old with zero social skills, I donât really care what you think or want to be honest. As you make very clear, youâve already made up your mind that your preferred outcome is how things should be, regardless of whether the evidence backs it up or not.
These issues have been loudly debated for at least a decade now. Most of us have known dozens of people who have quit for related reasons, and every week new people come on the forum to share that exact same experience. Itâs one thing to say âanecdotal evidenceâ, but when weâre talking this many years and this many people, it stops being something you can just ignore. Or rather CCP can choose to ignore it, but theyâll keep losing new players as a result, which hurts all our game experiences.
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If suicide ganking is causing more player attrition per year, than player retention, thatâs a real problem for CCP and the game.
Noteworthy also that many suicide gankers just do it on the side of other activities.
IE: Nullbear bored while mining, that wants some HS PvP on his alt.
They wouldnât quit EVE if suicide ganking was nerfed, theyâd just focus on the rest.
Whereas their victims demonstrably are quitting EVE as a result of a suicide gank, regardless of what their other activities are.
Nobody did my killboard 
. I wanted to know my history too
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