Bastion module upgrade

(Quor Dresden) #27

I’m not worried about my MTU. I’m more interested in understanding the mechanics or lacking abilities of the bastion mod. It seems to be far less then it’s fellow siege mod, and the issue of bumping is in need of some check. Even if it’s in just a very few ships.

Edit: Recently in my Orca I was bumped for no reason other then just for fun before they left the area.

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(Scoots Choco) #28

I think you understand it quite well.

Bastion does not prevent you from getting bumped.

It’s now up to you to use that knowledge to improve your own gameplay and skill.

(Blade Darth) #29

Getting bumped away from an mtu… HS problems.

How about marauders costing 2x+ as much as a carrier and (factoring in travel/ refit time/ loot rng) earning less iskies/h?

(M Cincinnatus) #30

Yah, I agree, MTU’s are the least of the issues. It’s not a necessity for my needs, but I do like the idea of increased mass for bastion, as it makes sense. And as the article stated, it was intended to have that effect. However, I couldn’t find another article to explain why it got nerfed or never implemented. Maybe someone else would be able to shed light on that.

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(M Cincinnatus) #31

Meh, getting bumped away from MTU I thought was added content, not really a problem.

As for marauder cost, I bought my first one for a billion isk IIRC. Bought my 2nd and 3rd within the last year for about 1.6bil. I wouldn’t mind if the price dropped on em. But seeing as how volume traded has stayed steady for quite some time, therefore people still feel they are worth the price, I don’t foresee CCP changing anything for awhile unfortunately. It may possibly because marauders can make good isk in WH’s, AFAIK.

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(Quor Dresden) #32

This is not the issue of the thread, just the situation that brought about the idea of the thread.

I care less about the MTU, and am interested in the bumping of a target that is in a stationary mode. That does not allow for any counter. And further more after turning off this mode is bound by a timer that limits docking or gate use.

So again should bastion or siege mode be immune to bumping?

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(Darth Schweinebacke) #33

Yes Bastion Mode does trigger a timer that prevents you from docking.

However… if you sit at a gate or near a station in your totally overpowered ship in bastion mode and can not be bumped off from the station or gate, you still have a rather powerful tank on marauders, that will still keep you alive long enough to to wait out the timer.

You also can easly just sit at a station in a marauder like that. Camp there in a ship that is stupid powerfull. If you are put into any kind of danger, you deactivate your bastion module, undock 1-2 shitty t1 logis you easily sacrifice to keep your marauder alive until the timer runs out.

This enables people to use a totally overpowered ship with pretty much no risk, unless you get blobbed by a pretty big overwhelming force, with tons of dps and or neut support.

If you want to have any decent chance to actually kill a marauder that is hugging a gate or station you either have largely outnumber it. Or Bump it off the gate/station and apply lot´s´of neutralizers on it.

Either way a Marauder that can not be bumped out of range will be pretty much unkillable in a 1 v 1 scenario.

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(Quor Dresden) #34

So in a 1v1 scenario how does bumping help in the first place vs a marauder?

Should a long skill training ship have any advantages?

As there clearly is a down side to being stuck in place and having a timer that prevents docking or gate use for 60 seconds. How is there a real down side to having bumping immunity?

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(Darth Schweinebacke) #35

When I engage a Marauder 1 v 1 I do it in a Bhaalgorn. If he sits near a gate or station I bump him off… neut the crap out of him and even if he waits out his timer he still dies.

If I can not bump him out of docking range even with 1k ish dps even a fully active tanked marauder has enough EHP to wait out the timer, even assuming he does not have any cap booster fitted (which is highly unlikely) and does not make a single repair cylce after breaking out of bastion mode and just jumps / docks.

Granted though, near a gate there still would be a slight chance do bump him out of range while he waits out his timer, if he does not manage to pulse his mwd to stay in range. Near stations with large docking areas it just is going to be nearly impossible.

The amount of ships that stand a chance against marauders is low enough already and further reducing the risk to use them for PvP is just not a good decision.

And killing them already only works under the assumption that the marauder pilot is silly enough to engage the few ships that are a threat to it.

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(Quor Dresden) #36

Interesting to know that your cheap ship is so effective vs a well skilled marauder. But wouldn’t it be easier to escape in a ship with no bastion mod that has no timer next to a gate or station?

(Darth Schweinebacke) #37

1st of all… a Bhaalgorn might not cost a whole lot, but is extremly powerful and deadly in 1 v 1s or even small gangs if you invest into some decent modules combined with implants like asklepians and drugs for tanking.

Due to the role bonus, combined with the bonus / skill level to Nosferatus it not only is able to suck dry multiple ships it is facing, but at the same time can maintain its capacitor to easyly run 2 x-type reppers indefinetly… combined with a cap booster even under some neut preassure itself it´s not a ship that is going to get killed easily.

At the same time (as mentioned above you still reach around 1K dps and have the slots available for 2 webs with enough range to web any ship trying to tackle it unless it has a hull bonus to tackling range. However ships with the range bonus are still easily within range of a bhaalgorns pulse lasers and to web bhaalgorn down to keep it from escaping trying to bump it is quite the suicide mission as well.

In short: Do not mess around with blood raider ships :). And the Bhaalgorn is a pretty good example of a totally overpowered solopwn mobile and as much as I love that ship and always enjoyed flying it, it honestly should get nerfed

As for the escaping part. It would not really make a difference as engaging itself triggers a 60 second weapon timer when engaging preventing you from docking / jumping, just like the bastion timer.

edit: Just to clarify… If you engage into PvP with a marauder you don´t just sit there with your bastion module active either, you activate it when you actually engage so in regards to the timespan until you are allowed to jump / dock there is absolutly no difference if you engage in a marauder or any other ship.

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(Marcus Gideon) #38

You know, I’ve run tons of L4s with my Paladin, sitting right on top of my MTU while sieged up. And I have never had anyone come along and bump me or kill it or anything. Do you know why? Because I don’t run missions in the popular hubs…

Why make the devs come up with all sorts of possibly unbalanced game mechanics, when you can just be a smarter player and not hang out where all the ninja looters hang out?

(Quor Dresden) #39

Already answered that in a previous post.

Again I was not on a mission but killing invasion rats. Many players often in the same area in an invasion area. So I did not pull my MYU when other players arrived.

Also not the purpose of this thread. As I learned about it during said rat killing, the idea is just an open discussion.

(DeMichael Crimson) #40

I agree with the OP.

When Bastion mode is engaged, the ship is basically anchored in place and shouldn’t be susceptible to bumping.

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(Marcus Gideon) #41
  1. It’s a Marauder, they have lots of extra High slots. Useful for things like; tractor beams, and salvagers.

  2. Bastion mode doesn’t “anchor you” to the fabric of spacetime. It’s just a button that basically says “redirect engine power to repair modules”. That’s why you can’t move.

(Quor Dresden) #42

Thanks captain obvious.

Actually I did use my tractor beam to pull my loot in after the MTU was destroyed. So the bumping and destruction of my MTU was for nothing. As I had more value in loot in my cargo the loss of the MTU was really no big deal. And again not the point of this thread.

I know bastion mode does not anchor you, the point of this thread is should it.

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(Marcus Gideon) #43

The point is… you didn’t need to use an MTU, so the loss is your own fault. And you chose to hang out in a place with lots of other griefers, when ALL over the place people have been complaining about how the Invasions are just full of griefers. So the loss is your fault. Also, anyone shooting at your MTU would have gone Suspect, and you could have killed them yourself.

And the idea that Siege should stop you from being bumped is a logical fallacy. Siege stops you from moving yourself. That doesn’t mean it should stop you from being moved. Like I (and others have) said from the start. Making a Sieged ship rooted could cause unforeseen consequences in gameplay. Whereas, flying smarter avoids the problems altogether.

(darkestkhan Eriker) #44

Why not just blap the one shooting your mtu? after all he is suspect while shooting your mtu…

(Quor Dresden) #45

I wish now I never told my story along with the idea of adding an anchoring feature to the bastion mod. To many are focusing on the stupid MTU.

This is not a I’m mad about losing my MTU I want changes now thread. That’s just the story that made me think it would be a cool feature to add to the bastion mod. Maybe it is a bad idea, but so far in this thread the only legitimate argument for not adding the feature is grieving the docking area.

(Quor Dresden) #46

I thought about it, but it could of been bait, and I was pve fit. A 6 mil MTU is nothing compared to a marauder.

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