Battlefield Shenanigans

So I’ve done battlefields in FW for awhile, and I’ve seen a fairly committed effort to exploit it. Initially, there was an exploit where CalMil would gain LP even if they lost, no matter how far they were from the battlefield, so in addition to the content CCP created, there was a second, scummy game where CalMil alts in nano-fit slashers would try to get inside in bulk and burn out 300-1000km away so they get free LP.

CCP fixed this.

Now the game becomes “How can I exploit the BF and gain as much LP as possible without contributing period?” Players are creating a ridiculous number of GalMil/CalMil alts, and depending on which side is dominating, they will send 5-10 newly created toons to leech 5-10x the LP in barely functional T1 frigates or destroyers. In response, I’ve seen some players fighting back by setting up a toon to blap any non-contributer, player suddenly burning 300km away from their allies to literally nowhere, or new toon who for some reason was jammed into FW Day 1 and is suddenly trying to enter the battlefield.

Now the game becomes “Well how can I dodge these players kill me and all my alts?”

The answer? Cloaking devices.

There are now seagulls burning out into the battlefield just far enough that they can cloak and automatically gain LP with no counterplay from players who wish to remove them. That, and it also just looks plain disgusting watching it happen in real time. I love the new content CCP has introduced, but I’m not fond of watching this secondary game play out at the same time. It’s demoralizing and it encourages other players to stop trying or not commit nearly as much.

Can we remove or disable cloaking in Battlefields? It serves no functional purpose in an environment where covert ops (T2) ships can’t be inside in the first place. It’s just helping these people leech. These people will do literally anything to gain LP without contributing.

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Simple request: CCP relax wardec restrictions:

  • No more structure requirement
  • Allow militia to wardec others in the same militia

Everything can then be handled by the players from there.

Farmers will always exploit any CCP-created artificial barriers to protect them, removing barriers and letting players police puts the balance back into player hands and put a check onto farmers – or at least forces them to engage with the social aspect of the sandbox.

(Today: people roll neutral alts or alts in the opposing militia so they can shoot farmers in their own militia. This also causes the “real” militia to want to shoot these alts because they’re not actually for the war effort. So even if people don’t want to roll alts, they can still want to shoot their own militia)

Players are creating a ridiculous number of GalMil/CalMil alts, and depending on which side is dominating, they will send 5-10 newly created toons to leech 5-10x the LP in barely functional T1 frigates or destroyers.

Ignoring that you can get a half-decent frigate with the 1m SP on offer for new accounts, this a dangerous precedent to set. Where do you draw the line at gate-keeping FW from new players, or players simply looking to try it without the hassle of relocating and leaving their existing corp/alliance?

Is a more experienced player who is flying a well-fit and max-skilled faction cruiser justified in removing those that player might see as beneath him/her from the field? I can tell you that I have seen “new players” not in groups be attacked by their own miltia, because “probably a farmer”…

The answer? Cloaking devices.

Have you considered this strategy has developed in response to players gate-keeping the plexes to those who they deem unworthy? I have seen many instances of people shooting at newbies purely out of greed for the LP.

Given the substantial nerfs to cloaking modules in years past, I think it would be supremely unfair to make them even less useful.

Can we remove or disable cloaking in Battlefields? It serves no functional purpose in an environment where covert ops (T2) ships can’t be inside in the first place. It’s just helping these people leech. These people will do literally anything to gain LP without contributing.

That would be solving one symptom of the actual problem you are addressing. This is what’s sometimes referred to as the XY problem. You are proposing Y as a solution, when you really want to solve for X, or “How can we reward actual contribution (a/k/a risk)”?

I think a more comprehensive solution lies within awarding LP rewards based on something other than proximity. I would suggest that some combination of damage/healing dealt (weighted minimally, because you probably do want fast tacklers at rally points) and hull cost + module cost. The more ISK you’ve invested into your vessel, the more LP rewards you will receive.

  1. A new player wouldn’t create a new character, join FW on day 1, say absolutely nothing to anybody, conveniently warp themselves to the nearest battlefield, burn away to a safe spot, and then cloak. That is not a sensible behavior for someone who is completely in the dark and has no idea how this game works.

  2. A player looking to try out FW wouldn’t specifically fit a nano-fit MWD T1 frigate with no weapons and make 0 effort to talk to anyone in the militia to learn how the mechanics works. They also wouldn’t fit an oversized MWD on a punisher and orbit the battlefield at 250km. This isn’t an intention to learn. They have nothing to gain from this. This is called leeching.

  3. This isn’t a strategy. This is an exploit to get LP without contributing. No human being on earth would rationally think “Oh these guys are blocking me from participting and learning FW! Better fit a cloaky T1 frigate, burn 300km, cloak, and AFK. That’ll teach me EVERYTHING I need to know! I won’t even ask around or talk to people. No, the very specific plan of cloaking far off in a battlefield is way more reasonable than just talking or trying to learn”

  4. May I add that a new player wouldn’t even know it’s possible to cloak, because they would most likely attempt to cloak as they land or move in random directions. They don’t know how cloaking mechanics work in this game. They wouldn’t even know that a cloaking device exists, and the initial message of not being able to cloak after landing in the battlefield would confuse them. How would they specifically know that they can cloak moving just far enough in a given linear direction from the center?

[EDIT]
5. New players don’t sit outside the gate in empty T1 frigates, waiting for the contested % to be around 99.5%, and then slide in all together.

[EDIT again… reading as I go]
6. Your proposed solution doesn’t work because it ignores roles. There are legitimate players in frigates serving as tackle. They know where they need to be and guard the beacons of opposing militias and neutrals. Or, they generally patrol around the area of the battlefield (not 300km away). These pilots do not actively DPS and it would be unfair to them. I’m only asking to remove cloaking devices.

You’re still not addressing the core of the problem; players/farmers who are looking to earn LP (nothing wrong with that) without contributing (nothing mechanically wrong with that, although ethically I think we are in agreenace that would be degenerate behavior).

The best solution would be to have LP payouts reward actual risk, rather than simply presence.

There are so many other things wrong with FW that need addressing, such as people corp-hopping so they can kill militia mates, which I believe would appropriately be classed as an exploit.

You don’t think there’s something wrong with this?

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I’d actually like CSM input on whether or not this is too much of an ask:
Remove cloaking from Battlefields
@Brisc_Rubal

This sounds like a perfect place to drop a mobile observatory to kill these guys with.

Players taking matters into their own heads leads to Killing Dealing damage to blue militia, which in turn comes with severe standings penalties and ultimately the possibility of getting kicked out of FW in the first place.

Ways to avoid this involve:

  1. Neutral alts that somehow survive and don’t get killed by other militia on-grid
  2. Forming a cartel with the opposing militia (leads to “in-groups” and “out-groups”)
  3. Do nothing

Or, 4: exactly what you said, plus my proposal upthread to reduce the artificial restrictions on “legal” targets so players don’t get kicked out of FW.

None of those guys are cloaked?

Courtesy of a friend for getting this screenshot.

On a side note, apparently this is unintended and has already been reported a bug.

and how do we deal with those who show up and pretend to fight by orbiting a control point? :smiley:

Although you were present at the capture of enemy site in Oicx, the following circumstances prevent you from qualifying for loyalty points for your effort:
Your ship was cloaked at the time.

Tried it out. Seems like the game already accounts for these people who are cloaked. Is this a non-issue?

Just… Decloak when the BF is seconds from being done… As every human being does when they’re exploiting this… I don’t know why you’re fighting this so much. It would take more effort to ignore that step and say “is this a non-issue?” than it would be to notice it.

CCP already confirmed this is unintentional behavior… And it’s been reported as a bug to them… I don’t know why you’re still replying.