Beginner Missions (of all stripes) Suck Hard

Communications Center General Discussion
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I don’t know who is in charge of designing missions for newbros but they need to be let go and not given a reference. Perhaps even some of their personal items should go missing when security packs up their things, their transgressions are that dire.

I’ve just started the Visions of Greatness arc and I must say it is rough. I mean really, would it kill Fenris to give new players a properly fitted ship for free, why am I facing off against multiple Catalysts with one single railgun? Totally absurd. Not to mention the mobs seem scripted to kite the player at random times, which is fun because you’ve put killing them on a timer. Which seems kind of pointless since you can’t die anyways, so not really sure why they need a timer.

Like, what are we teaching new players here aside from extremely bad ideas? Because what I’m seeing is that I don’t need tank or speed (or even a fully fit ship), that ECM goes just any old place, and that I can show up to a combat encounter with only 1 gun and still win through copious amounts of plot armor. I have much the same gripe with the career agent missions, you give the player the worst possible gear to do the job and then wonder why career agent hubs are stocked full of items to allow you to skip half the content of the mission.

Like seriously why am I flying around New Player Island in a Merlin with ECM and shield reppers? This is so embarrassing.

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missions rats aren’t the problem, it’s the rewards, the mission rewards has yet to catch up to the market inflation, don’t know what you’re going on about, when you’re low skill, you’re going to struggle, stop complaining and get better, that’s what these missions are teaching you

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What was the point of this response?

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Keep in mind that these are beginner missions.

They teach you the basics, like:

  • how do I use a gun
  • how do I fly my ship
  • how do I remotely repair another ship
  • how do I use an ECM jammer

For that purpose there is no need to have a super-optimized ship fit that does shooting well, nor is there a reason to hand such fully-fit ships out for free.

Instead the beginner gets a wide range of different frigates each with a couple of different modules so they can learn about all those modules as part of the tutorial.

You have plot armor, you cannot get damaged while in hull, so any defences are irrelevant except for learning purposes.

This explains why you are flying a Merlin with ECM and shield repairers instead of getting for free an optimized doctrine-fit Merlin which you would fly for a null sec alliance.

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I like this, it feels like part of a sitcom.

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Mike is personally responsible for the NPE.

Take your concerns up with him.

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Taking my example to an illogical extremity isn’t very useful either. I did not say that we should hand players null spec doctrine ships in the beginner missions, so pretending as if that were my solution is on you.

The player has already learned how to shoot a gun, equip modules, and use them thanks to the tutorial (presumably, it’s been awhile since I ran it). To now give players their first epic arc and rehash the same lessons, but now more poorly and across several sectors, is inane and serves no real purpose other than to pad the NPE with meaningless content. I argue that this only puts off new players and does nothing to prepare them for the harsh realities of Eve, which is that if you waste slots on un-bonused modules you are severely hampering your fit and thus your ability to accomplish the task at hand. Or that 90% of their time will be spent talking about killmails and how the hapless victim made X huge mistake by not equipping Y module in Z slot. Fitting is such an integral part of success in Eve it feels absolutely criminal to repeatedly show newbros that it’s okay to equip random junk wherever they want b/c it worked on starter island.

Furthermore the idea that we have to give new players four different frigates, knowing full well that they will be forced to skill into non-racial weapon trees, is also so poorly thought out it begs the question as to how some of the staff are keeping their jobs. This doesn’t really give new players anything useful and I ended up simply trashing all the ships I was given because I’m not wasting my time hauling them out or even bothering to run missions in Exordium with them (I wanted rep gain, for context). Instead of giving the player useless junk and then spreading it out across the entire system why not just give the player a choice of a frigate crate, and then add the required modules when the time comes in the quest chain? Are we to presume that players are so inept as to not figure out how to swap modules?

I mean we must, given that we don’t even trust the newbro to properly operate the camera! I actually wanted to watch the stuff going on in the new content, Fenris, not look at my ship the whole time. They even made cool simulated explosions but I don’t get to enjoy them because my camera is locked directly onto the exhaust port of my ship, but I digress.

Eve beginner missions constantly tell the new player to make very bad fitting choices and then does nothing to address that mistake later on, leaving the hard lessons to be taught by (increasingly bitter and old) veterans. To compound this error players are now free to exist blithely unaware of their learned behavior within the safety of a starter island. Fenris has created the perfect storm of unrealistic expectations to be shattered immediately upon contact with the real Eve and this can only lead to lower new player retention. If you want people to actually go into Exordium and perform the much needed task of mentoring newbros to not slap ECM on any old thing then you’ve also got to listen to them when they bring legitimate complaints to the board about how the NPE is actually functioning.

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I was under the impression that the new ‘first epic arc’ is meant to be the tutorial.

So it wouldn’t be rehashing the same lessons or more meaningless padded content.

But correct me if I’m wrong, if there also is a tutorial that does the same things before these new player epic arc then it does indeed seem redundant.

The thing about ‘bad fits’ is that fits depend on the context. There is no objectively ‘good fit’ that makes other fits bad, you equip modules to fit the situation.

So, each of the fits given with which you complete the new player missions are in fact good fits, even if unconventional. They’re sufficient for their purpose.

Is it a bad idea to fit an ECM jammer or remote shield repairer on a Merlin? Often it wouldn’t be my first choice, but for this mission it’s a good choice.

I think it’s nice that newbies aren’t immediately pushed into the min-maxing meta or that of always following ship bonuses. And that there is room to improve the fits they get, even if the fits they get for these missions is sufficient.

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You can thank the people that claim that ‘everything is too easy’ in this game(with their lvl 5 skills) and that lvl 2 blockade ‘can be done in a frigate’ and that any noob ‘just have to get gud and have to fit according to the mission(how should a real noob know what to fit and why?)’…The described mission situation is just the logical answer to this kind of claims f.e. in the help channel if some noob is asking for help…

Those people, that SERIOUSLY(and obviously) FORGOT how HARD this game can be for a total noob(well, because THEY can do lvl 2 Blockade in a corvette(with their multiple lvl 5 skills)), so everyone can do it(i actually heard this ‘statement’ TWO FREAKING TIMES FROM DIFFERENT PERSONS, lol) are the real problem here, not the noobs, a real noob is NEVER guilty of anything, especially not for not knowing those kind of things…

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Well…

The New Player Experience Tutorial starts within the AIR station (which get’s destroyed) right after character creation is completed… After completing the NPE Tutorial, the player is then directed to visit the Career Agents of their chosen Faction… After completing each one, the Career Agents mention their specific career as a possible profession for the player to conduct… The only Epic Arc that is mentioned is the Level 1 Sisters Of Eve Epic Arc…

The NPE Tutorial and the Career Agents all instruct the new player on the basics of ship operation, fitting and interfacing with the various aspects of the User Interface…

DMC
o7

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No I meant the new player epic arc in Exordium that makes you learn some basics while you get some backstory for each of the four factions, where does that fit in?

That’s the part the OP is talking about.

Is that the NPE tutorial, replacing (part of) the old one, or is it in addition to a tutorial earlier in the NPE?

I recently only did these missions on my main so I missed the first steps of character creation and whatever else may happen before.

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did you typo lvl 4?

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After completing the basic AIR Tutorial and Career Agents, the Agency window will highlight the ‘Visions of Greatness’ Epic Arc as the next step before leaving Exordium Region…

I’m pretty sure a brand new player is directed by in-game prompts to complete each of the following steps in this order after creating a character:

Step 1: Character Creation with Spatial Spawn
Step 2: AIR New Player Experience Tutorial
Step 3: Career Agents
Step 4: Introduction To Epic Arc’s - ‘Visions Of Greatness’
Step 5: Leave Exordium Region / Travel To Level 1 SoE Epic Arc

Players are only required to do Step 1 in order to play Eve Online, all other steps are optional…

Each Career Agent will advise the player to conduct their specific career or consult another Career Agent for more Career options… Basically each Career Agent promotes different aspects of Eve = PvE / Mission Running, PvP / Faction War, Mining / Manufacturing / Trade, Exploration, etc… Also players are directed at various times to access the AIR Career Program which basically fills in other Career options that the Career Agents failed to mention..

As for the ‘Visions Of Greatness’ Epic Arc, I guess it’s 8 mission series does offer some instruction… However the game explicitly instructs players to leave their own ships docked… The Epic Arc automatically provides players with combat Frigates already pre-fit with various modules to use… Not to mention the fact that due to how the missions are set up, those ships basically won’t be destroyed…

Anyway, the rewards for completing that arc consist of the following:

Faction Standing increase of +0.20% (+0.25% with Social Level 5) to all four main Factions (Amarr, Caldari, Gallente, Minmatar) with no Negative Standing hits…

Four Tech 1 Frigates pre-fit with various modules… Amarr Punisher, Caldari Merlin, Gallente Tristan, Minmatar Rifter…

500,000 ISK for mission completion and chapter completion bonus…

‘Epic Hero’ decoration on the Character’s public profile…

Lastly, the arc can be repeated every 90 days for at least +0.20% Faction standing increase to all 4 main Factions along with four fully fit Tech 1 Frigates to use or sell on Market…

Other than that, this arc may offer a little instruction for Piloting Tactics and various Ewar modules but it’s mainly set up as a Historical Re-enactment…

DMC
o7

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Your take on bad fits is semantics. A rifter with an ECM is in fact objectively worse at doing ECM things than a role bonused ship with an ECM, there is no equivalency. There are objectively bad fits, for every ship, and the missions (and millions of hilarious zkill entries) prove it. You might argue that some fits may look bad but still serve a role, a cloaky ESS robbing Stabber comes to mind, but that only looks like a bad fit on paper and in a vacuum. If you happen to be robbing ESS with it, then it’s pretty dang good. But we cannot say that “bad fits don’t exist” because we ALL have a killmail or two from our newbro days that make us blush.

Look, I’m not just picking apart these missions for no reason. I want new players, I like the idea of starter island, but when I go to see its implementation for myself I am underwhelmed, or not whelmed at all. Perhaps I am looking at it with bitter vet eyes and not from a new players perspective but none of us can unless we are in fact new players. We may surmise what that feels like and recall our own experiences, but ultimately it will be up to the new players themselves to give us accurate information on how the NPE is working for them. All I can do is point out where I see the gaps between what Fenris is trying to do vs what they are accomplishing. And when I look back on how things were for me, knowing myself and my attitudes, I would not have continued playing Eve if I had been drip-fed such bad advice across the entire range of the beginner missions only to find out in the most violent way possible that I had been taught wrong. If I had to pinpoint one thing that “changed Eve” for me and got me really interested it was joining an active corp that took an active role in teaching me the ropes. In my opinion the NPE should be directed towards funneling newbros into corps, leave the missions for telling stories and exposing the player to the lore (and fix the goddamn camera locks so they can enjoy the show!).

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@Starcleric it seems you will fit in well here. Im not sure if thats a compliment or not tbh.

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It seems no matter how many times I win Eve, I keep coming back for more so I will take the tongue-in-cheek compliment at face value and give you a heart emoji. I am told this indicates positivity.

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‘Winning eve’ is still having the choice to leave it…if you come back you have already lost :stuck_out_tongue:

Way too many people ingame and here on this forum have lost the possibility to actually leave this game behind and enter their real life…this is the reason they get so furoius if i say specific things about this game that point out its weaknesses :slight_smile: And certainly things that can be changed for the benefit of all…‘their game’ has to be eternal…And i am guilty of heresy…

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You and I are going to get along just fine LOL. #flowersonrainbows
Uta… You are self-reflecting. Try not to do that in public very much.
I uninstalled the game when the new patch came out because it is a poor product that I will not pay for. Yet I am still here…

When I play a video game big things happen… I’m not planning on playing Eve. I am setting up Sim racing irl and using Eve as an excuse to practice with AI along with editorial skills and writing skills.

I do have a question though for the new man… Please understand that I am very literal also and mean no harm in my words. How is it that you won at eve? Like when people tell me I’m winning the isk war… I would say if this game is about isk then I have already won. But it’s not really about isk is it… It’s about power. Isk does not buy power any more in this game due to war hq’s.

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Ah yes, winning Eve means you took a break or quit playing entirely. It’s a bit of an in-game joke since there is no real win-state, you just sort of keep playing forever.

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Heresy!!

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