Bitter Vets versus Better Vets


Still on the whole “everyone with a complaint is a bitter vet” kick, huh?

Have you ever had a proselytizer come to your door and try to bring the Word to you? How welcome do you figure they are?

Given your own definitions, you appear to have confused bitter vets with angry and disappointed players who are uninformed and unwilling to learn how EVE works. Or, basically, everyone who doesn’t EVE the way you think they should. So every whiner, ragequitter or noob (as opposed to newbro) becomes a ‘bitter vet’ by your definition

Some people feel a more appropriate definition of a bitter vet would be someone who’s been at EVE for more than 5 years, who has tried a lot of different things, and is extremely disappointed with the poor game design, constant stream of coding issues, broken promises, outright lies, and frequently shoddy workmanship of CCP’s dev team.

A bitter vet, in that case, becomes someone who has paid their subs, played the game, watched and listened to the difference between what CCP says and what CCP does, and responds by effectively expressing their concerns.

Or you could use this definition from Reddit, which I thought was fairly on-point:
"Being a bitter-vet ultimately comes down to trying everything there is to do in EVE, finding one or two things that you really really deeply love about the game…

…and then watching CCP subject them to a slow, painful, lingering, agonizing, unnecessary death. Usually while they sit back and enjoy your reaction to it. Sometimes, even trolling you about your reaction.

After that, all you can do with EVE is bitterly reminisce about how much better it used to be, while reading forums and secretly hoping that one day CCP will realize how much they hurt the thing you love and bring it back."

If you have a different name for people who do that, please let us know.


Oh I wonder which of the two types you are…


That’s a nice straw man argument you got there. Accuse me of saying something that I’m not, and then attack that.


I’m not going to read it because that would be like going inside the nuclear reactor a second time in just one day, but I can only imagine.

The best thing to do when you get a heel-biting orbiter is to no longer acknowledge their existence. It’s like unlocking an achievement in a video game—it requires no further input from you once you do. Like the gimp locked inside your basement, it’s been thoroughly degraded and dehumanized to the point where you no longer consider it as an actual person.

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Really? Because I can easily link over a dozen threads and posts of yours where you’re calling everyone and their dog a bitter vet lately.

Point out player numbers are down? You’re a bitter vet!
Complain about the first set of mining changes proposed? You’re a bitter vet!
Tell new players to expect adversity and unfair odds? You’re a bitter vet!

You go on and on with it, multiple posts on multiple topics the past while. It’s getting tiresome. You’ve even said multiple times “gonna stop doing this now because it’s frustrating” but that only lasts a couple hours before you’re doing it again.

At any rate, I posted an actual, reasoned reply to your caricature of an OP, and I got 3 sets of personal slurs in response. That pretty much tells you all you need to know about the mindset of your thread.

Feel free to suck up to CCP all you like. Offer all the “constructive criticism” you can. I mean, it’s not like any posters have offered constructive criticism in the past decade and a half, right? CCP listening to you pretty hard, are they?

Yes, well-thought out responses and ideas are of somewhat more use than rage-quits and rants. But since CCP isn’t listening to anything except the dollars coming in, neither are all that useful.


Your picture speaks again for you. You can’t accuse Kezrai of using a strawman if the only thing you post is a picture with 2 extreme sides.

Plus, I again don’t know what to make of you. I fall into both categories because I keep complaining incessantly about CCP and search for every negative bit that I can find but I also provide constructive feedback and ways to make things better. I also don’t see change as an opportunity because most changes in the last 10 years have perverted, removed or warped opportunity.

Does that make me a Batter Vet? Butter Vet? Botter Vet maybe?



i think i am a bitter vet on this character. but then i am a rorqual pilot. my main combat pilot is constantly adapting to what CCP considers fun (hint, proving grounds is not fun) (killing hapless miners is not fun). (stupid outside ESS mechanics are not fun although inside can be)
my remaining accounts with various roles are just vets. boring, routine, tedious, but still playing

The obvious solution to this dilemma is to go the RL route and stop calling anyone without confirmed combat experience a “vet.” If someone has been sitting in a Rorqual inside a back-end rental system and mining for 12 years directly into their corporation’s ore buyback program, what exactly are they a veteran of? Or someone who has been running level 4 missions for the same high-sec agent since 2007? Just call them “bitter.”

  1. Question :

Please explain where is “BITTER” adjective suits the specialities of the veteran in Swedish Sport Toj.

  1. Question :

Why carry both ends to the point extremes? Why pitch black and milk white? Why stigmatization ?
sharp discrimination?

  1. Question :

I read what you wrote about Victim Mentality before. Where did you learn these?
Because when you describe Victim Mentality… you clearly step into the waters of Victim Blaming. Do you know the difference?

The issue is that here you assume there is a choice.

Sometimes you just pick a game, you get better at it, then the devs change it and you just can’t afford the time to get better at the new meta. All the things you learnt, all the time you invested, became void.

Sometimes, it’s even changed for a worse activity. Something less interesting, less challenging, less rewarding.

So the question is then, why would you make the effort to adapt, to something that will anyhow be removed by the dev in only a matter of time ? Something you can’t enjoy anymore “because reasons” ?


You can’t even begin to compare the two because victim-blaming occurs when someone is a genuine victim (e.g. a person of one ethnicity being assaulted by another because they weren’t in “their” part of town), while victim mentality is when someone thinks that they are a victim when in fact they aren’t (e.g. a person of ethnicity whose coffee order was cold or sandwich was missing its cheese claiming that their order was intentionally screwed up because of racial discrimination).

No one in EVE is a genuine victim, because this is a 100% optional entertainment experience in which everyone is by default anonymous, and provided the same opportunities (e.g. everyone can legally buy a combat ship and weapons). As such, anyone claiming to be a victim in EVE is adopting a victim mentality.


I think this image is misleading! I love theorycrafting how to gain an advantage within the mechanics provided when CCP implements changes (nerfs and gameplay removal mostly lol). I also think that as customers were allowed to be critical of CCP. Does it cross the line at times where it can be toxic and off putting to new players? Sure but I’d rather have prospective new players aware of how literally terrible CCP is.



Your perceptualization starts and ends only when the player push the login button and enter the game and begin to interact with other players? OR do you include theCustomer -Company interactions about the Product too?

CCP isn’t discriminating against anyone or oppressing anyone. They’re just developing a game that people can choose to play or not to play.

The people who think that they are genuine “victims” because CCP changed game mechanics that impact their play styles are certifiably insane.


you don’t need to have ill intent to make a victim.

Bitter vet whinebears should uninstall!

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Can you make an educated guess around the percentage of “ certifiably insane “ population in this current active player base?

( you can maybe make some round guess by considering last Jita riots, rorqual and wardeck change whiners and unexpected change decides the result of wwbee And high sec ganking whiners?

As the picture is rather binary, I guess not everyone falls completely in one or the other category.

What I do agree with in the picture is how the ‘better’ vet has a positive effect on the community, while the ‘bitter’ vet shows all the things you can do to drag the community down with negativity.

That doesn’t mean you absolutely have to follow one or the other - sometimes ranting is fun.

What it does tell you is that you have options. You do not always have to approach changes with a negative view, but can see it as an opportunity too. And if you do so, you might inspire others to become ‘better’ as well, rather than bitter.


Myself I am a Bieter Vet.