Blaster Void or Antimatter M?

[TiberianSun371AlexW]

If you are in a ship with medium blasters but don’t have a tracking bonus (like the Burtrix), what is the best ammo to use against targets with a hull signature radius (that is before modules that increase or ecrease) of 110 to 120 meters (think t1 or pirate crusiers) in small gang PVP?

Let’s go through a couple of possibilities.

One is that there is one target in a PVP ship an asteroid belt which a fleetmate in a frigate or destroyer warp scrambled and has a single web. Target has a MWD meaning it has the capacitor penalty but is unable to use it to control the range because of warp scramble. Because of the fleetmate, you are able to warp in not just in blaster falloff range, but blaster optimal range.

Next is 3 targets in an asteroid belt. All are PVP ships with MWD. 3 Fleetmates in tackle frigates and 1 in a crusier have held down the targets. All are webbed once, all are warp scrambled, and one is double warp scrambled. Once again, your fleetmates allow you to warp into blaster optimal range.

Third is another 3 targets in an asteroid belt, once again PVP ships with MWD. Fleetmates include 1 barge, 3 t1 frigates, and Omen Navy Issue. All targets are warp scrambled, however only 1 of them is webbed and the other ships do not have webs. For the third time, your fleetmates allow warping into optimal blaster range.

Fourth is 3 targets on a low sec gate. They have attacked a Deep Space Transport. A friendly Griffin has tried to dislodge their target locks but failed. 3 other fleetmates in various t1 frigates have warp scrambled one target each but only one of the frigates has a web, with the others using tanking or capacitor modules instead.

Fifth is in faction warfare. One of my friends said I didn’t have to participate in a militia to do FW PVP. He would just go into a site, say hi to a friendly NPC, and then call us when he wanted us to undock and get the guy who tries to attack the NPC. So 3 of us sat in NPC stations and waited for… well nothing happened. I’m not really sure what he wanted. I think my job was just to come to him, lock a target, and press f1. But let’s say 3 guys did try to enter and their signature radii were around that size. Unlike the previous scenarios, the fleetmate isn’t an instant way to get on top of the target. Even if he warp scrambled a target and his tank survived long enough for me to get there, I’d still need to slowboat into range. In fact, in this case, both void and antimatter might be the wrong options. Anyone stuck with meta blasters would be doomed, but I guess Null M offers some range.

[Kuro_Kanashimi]

This why you use fast tackle to pin down peeps so your brutix can get into range to just unleash on that homie.

[TiberianSun371AlexW]

Totally agree. You don’t chase a fast target with a Butrix, you get someone to hold it down and then you punch them in the face.

That said… what ammo is best when you have the luxury of being in Medium Blaster optimal range (even with the 25% penalty)?

Against battlecruisers, the answer is Void M. Against frigates and drones, Antimatter is better. And at something 100 to 120 m in sig radius… ummm?

[Kuro_Kanashimi]

I mean I’d target their drones with my drones.

But honestly, if you can pin them down, just slap the void in and melt that puppy.

[Moko_Musana]

An assault frigate is the thing I hate fighting the most with a BC. Here’s the damage my command ship inflicts to it, as it’s the only blaster fit ship I use.

Flying a frigate myself, I have never engaged in a “challenging” fight without dual-propulsion and not ended up losing the frigate, so I assume whatever tackle comes for me has dual prop, too. The Vulture in the Graph has a single web and a scram, though in a real stand off there’s more ships around it that provide for additional webs. Against common believe, void ammo doesn’t neccessarily outperform the other ammunitions, in fact it’s pretty lackluster against frigates.

The only situation when void would become more powerful then Plutonium is when the frigate forgets it has an afterburner. Or, when it didn’t fit an afterburner in the first place… I did mention my experience is that not having twin prop is a bad idea, did I?

If you warp 100m to a frigate, and it tries to gain transversal, whether AB fit or not, your guns won’t do a thing to is.

Also, notice the Vulture has an better range bonus then a brutix has, so you can assume the damage to start declining faster then it does on the vulture, and you probably want to use null or faction shells.

Going 100m distance to a cruiser isn’t exactly a smart idea, either, unless you have multiple webs on it:

While the Void ammo has a sweet spot here, at 100m distance you’ll be hitting a cruiser well within the damage dimensions of passive shield regeneration, if the cruiser knows how to manouver. In case of an eagle you’ll get away because it won’t hit you any more than you hit it.

Shooting the fat shield extender bloated ESS robbing battlecruiser is more likely to yield some results

400-ish dps at 100m distance with void ammo will clearly break a drake’s passive regeneration, the only problem is that the HAMLs will kill a Brutix first.

Recommendation: Stay at 4-5 km distance on anything, use manual manouvering to minimize transversal or “keep distance” if you’re lazy, instead of “orbit” or pretending to be a marauder and not moving, which both reduces your own application, use Void for cruisers and battlecruisers, CN Plutonium on frigates that come snuggle into web range, and Null or CN Tungsten for those that don’t. T1 tackle is usually fit with meta warp disruptors, so they’ll be where the Null ammo hits them nicely anyways. If they come into scram range while you have null or tungsten loaded just keep shooting, the extra damage of Plutonium isn’t worth losing 5 seconds reload + 2x2 seconds “eve ticks” in cycling down and up the gun.

[TiberianSun371AlexW]

@Moko_Musana

An assault frigate is the thing I hate fighting the most with a BC

Hope you still have at least 30% armor when his ADC wears out and then sic your drones after it wears out? I noticed those bastards just tear apart drones which I normally rely on to kill frigates. But if their ADC is finished and you have healthy drones (and your ship isn’t already a wreck), that should work?

@Moko_Musana

Against common believe, void ammo doesn’t neccessarily outperform the other ammunitions, in fact it’s pretty lackluster against frigates.

Yeah I know void isn’t great against frigates. I also know it’s great against battleships (if you can solve your range problem since you aren’t getting close to a Tempest Fleet Issue by slowboating).

I made the post while thinking about the 100 meter to 120 meter stuff (think cruisers) since I didn’t know what to do with that.

@Moko_Musana

so I assume whatever tackle comes for me has dual prop, too.

Do you need duel prop tackle t1 frigates if their only purpose is to hold something until a better t2 or navy frigate with scram and web and a BC pair arrive? There are ways to cheaply fit a Incursus, Punisher, or Antron and not lose too much.

@Moko_Musana

Going 100m distance to a cruiser isn’t exactly a smart idea, either, unless you have multiple webs on it:

While the Void ammo has a sweet spot here, at 100m distance you’ll be hitting a cruiser well within the damage dimensions of passive shield regeneration, if the cruiser knows how to manouver. In case of an eagle you’ll get away because it won’t hit you any more than you hit it.

Why is tungsten and void the same color? Ok what I think I can get from this graph is that Void has a sweet spot here. I really thought it would do a lot better below 2 km, the sweet spot isn’t as amazing as I thought, but I get the message that it does exist.

Thank you for the information!

[Miran_Tereven]

The short answer is that if you hit something with two webs and keep at range near the end of your optimal range, you should be fine with Void S. Just keep it within optimal, make it so they can’t maneuver to give you tracking problems, and don’t fly in a way that creates problems for your own weapons.

[Gleb_Koskov]

I’d use void vs shield (50/50) kin-therm, and Antimatter vs armor(60/40) kinetic-thermal.

[elitatwo]

I would use void ammo vs your ship class size and up and antimatter for ship classes smaller than yours.
Only serpentis ship could in theory use void ammo all day long vs everything.

[stefnia_Freir]

Against a smaller ships, match his velocity vector if you can, flee if you can’t

[TiberianSun371AlexW]

@elitatwo

I would use void ammo vs your ship class size and up and antimatter for ship classes smaller than yours.

Moko pointed out cruisers have a sweet spot for Void M.

[Nujenif_Talvanen]

I would use Antimatter when orbiting a laser or arty or railgun ship, say a Thorax that has caught an Omen. Since I use the XLASB Thorax, I really don’t want to be taking all that damage for long. If I orbit I can mitigate the damage and the Omen will go down easier. The tracking issues brought about by orbiting with AB on at 500m are mitigated somewhat by the tracking bonus of Antimatter over Void.