can I have your stuff?
youre right, its completely ruined. the ONLY way I make any money in stations is looking through contracts for items whose value has recently gone up. its pretty annoying, I really liked buying and selling when I used to play regularly, now thereâs no reason at all to do it.
How is relisting for 1 isk lower/higher than the current âbestâ price âcreativeâ? How is running bots - a violation of the game terms - âcreativeâ? The only thing being punished is bad market strategies and breaking the game rules.
hi there.
iâve used to play the 0,01 isk game and had fun with it. managed about 150 orders up to 200 in 4-4 and logged in almost every day. did some pve and industry on other chars and had fun to find out new items to trade. now iâm down in orders. almost no bo, just selling old stuff and log un once or twice a week.
iâve tried to get back into the new trading after this update and yeah, itâs still possible to make good isk, but for me it aint that fun anymore. the relistingfee sucks and makes buying and selling really slow. ticks⌠hm dunno. could handle them but imho was no need of that. ok, they force some errors when entering a new price, but mousewheel was my king anyway when changing prices.
i hope there will someday be an update to make trading kinda fun again. the marketsytem in eve was unique, now itâs meeeh
tldr
this update killed my playingexperience
i love excel!!11
2 Likes
Smaller orders, less frequent updating. Thatâs it.
Before the change, my standard buy order was 1,000 items.
Now, itâs somewhere between 50 and 200, depending on the item.
Most other traders are doing small orders, too, so it makes it possible to set and forget your order and be reasonably confident it will be filled in a reasonable time, because youâre not stuck behind a 100,000 item order.
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@Mkikaden_Tiragen the only thing being punished is anyone having to relist an order, bot and non bot the same way.
Which means every âprofessionalâ market actor : station trader , seeders, regional traders and all kind of creative business that I donât even know they exists.
Why bots would be the only one paying this fee ?
Ok I did an experiment for those who say these change are good. I noticed That T2 subcontroler rigs could be bought 2.7m in Jita and sold 9m in Amarr. So I buy the stuff and move them there a few hours ago :
I already paid 664k ISK broker fee and sold nothing.
Now thereâs already 30+ items ahead of mine. Are these from bots that were evicted?
If I want to sell, I need to relist, This is going to cost me 300k
Letâs say that I need to relist 5 times,
The total broker fee will be 5x300 + 664 = ISK 2.2m
Letâs assume that I sell both of them for 6m. I am going to pay 2.35% tax in top of that.
Result I lose 1.66m + shipping, I should have been to cover the shipment before this patch but no longer. 2.3m are unpredictable taxes. I have no clue today how much I am going to have to pay to get rid of these.
Conclusion: the state of the market is really broken, not because of bots but because of CCP bad decisions.
Just ask the players they will tell you whatâs needed to fix the market
- Automatically buy the cheapest stuff without having to go click orders one by one
- One click to readjust price x% under the best bid
- One click to readjust all the current orders automatically
Just remove what was patched in the last year and implement these and market will be in much better shape
1 Like
Sounds like you got played and now are just saltyâŚ
@Runa_Yamaguchi thatâs just a demonstration of the state of the market. Bots are still here more than ever and market is more broken than ever. I did not and wonât invest anything in the market as long as they are fixed.
Yes I am salty, I did love this game for years, and this patch ruined my gameplay. Hopefully thereâs lots of good game out there I can give my money toâŚ
That claim is your opinionâŚmany people here actually say the opposite that the changes made it unprofitable for many of the bots and they went away. Of course, this is also just a claim but carries equal weight to your soâŚ
If you can make money on the market now they you really didnât learn much before and probably should leave Eve. Itâs too hard for you.
I donât want your stuffâŚBye nowâŚ
@Runa_Yamaguchi no thatâs not an opinion, before these patch I had a hard time finding disparities > 20% in between hubs. Now thereâs nothing easier. Check prices of these items in Jita and Amarr, thereâs a 100% price tag for 9 jumps. They would have been one trader dream 1 year ago, now that trader left the game they are just the expression of the broken game
- Large Drone Mining Augmentor I
- Large Low Friction Nozzle Joints I
- Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II
- âAugmentedâ Warrior
- Shadow Antimatter Charge XL
This is called anecdotal evidenceâŚat best itâs opinion. If it was a fact then you would provide themâŚ
Your âNow thereâs nothing easierâ example can also be argued that without the bots auto-adjusting their orders, you now are left with discrepancies that can be taken advantage ofâŚwhich you seem to be against oddly enough.
Just in case you did not figure it out yourself : none takes advantage of these discrepancies because the combination of bots plus relist broker fees makes it a loss if you do.
Check a few posts above and you will see how a 400% margin will end up being a 30% loss.
Test yourself⌠buy 10 of the items I listed and come back post your lossesâŚ
So for exampleâŚ
if I BUY a Medium Energy Locus Coordinator II (as per your example above) in Jita @ 1,814,000.00 and then move it to Amarr and sell it for apx 4,403,000, this will somehow be a loss?
Please explain how the bots and fees will eat away that 2.5M profit as itâs true, I honestly donât get what you are saying nowâŚ
@Khamsila youâre playing against relist fees instead of leveraging them to your advantage 
Place a competitive buy/sell order the first time to minimize/eliminate the need to relist, and to penalize anyone who attempts to undercut you by significantly hurting their margins. You donât necessarily have to have the best offer on the market if the item is bought more quickly than it is supplied by new sellers, but if you do want to become the lowest seller for certain items, be the lower seller by a significant percentage. Do not play the penny game like everyone did before the introduction of relist fees.
The only players Iâve heard complain about the new eco changes are those who no longer make stupid high margins since the eco changes were specifically designed to simultaneously drive down sell prices while driving up buy prices; you can still make margins if you place competitive offers to eliminate the need to relist.
Any bots that exist are murdering their wallets whenever they relist, or whenever they are âtriggeredâ to place an uncompetitive margin since that they will easily be beat by other players and will force them to relist and lose their profit margins. I can assure you that any âintelligent botsâ that exist to avoid market losses arenât relisting often because they are placing competitive offers the first time, and as such they have slim margins.
2 Likes
- I just put an item for sale to see if bots(-aspirant) were gone : I was undercut 10 times before I could sell anything (see the screenshot above).
- I paid @600k broker fee (3.34%), and did not relist yet. Lets continue the experiment. what should be my next price so that I donât have to relist another time and make a decent profit?
- Same for âMedium Energy Locus Coordinator IIâ. Letâs say that @Runa_Yamaguchi buys 10 of them, what is the sweet spot so that she sells everything and do not have to relist?
In modern market theory, it has been demonstrated that assets are valued at there right price if you remove all transaction fees [Fama, 1970]. CCP decided that they better deserved a Nobel prize in Economics than Fama so they went the opposite wayâŚ
I admit that I felt this patch was so bad for my gameplay that I did not even bothered to do any trading and just left for Albion. It is going to be very hard to provide any metrics from before the patch, but when I compare Albion now and Eve now, I see that Eve market in its current state is really broken.
In Albion you have 6 markets. And if I look at the prices for a random mid end weapon (T6 Great Holy Staff). The bid/ask spread is 13%
If I look at the bid/ask spread of a 1600mm plate, the bread and butter of Amarian ships, and that in Amarr (the 2nd hub). I see a spread of 49% (https://evepraisal.com/a/uei5u).
Well thatâs really bad and I feel it is getting worse and worse. And apart from participating to the current war I see little incentive to play in this meta.
A last anecdotal evidence
I predicted that ppls, like me, would be moving to activity that does not require access to the market or leave, namely incursions gives you a cash payout. Incursion were dead, now ppls are waiting 4 hours in line to get some cash!?
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I would not bother arguing with those two people. You only argue against stupid; the same kind of stupid that CCP used as justification to introduce this change. I keep putting things up in Amarr for âcompetitive pricesâ, as these people suggest, but moments later I am undercut. A couple of days ago I updated an order that had been lingering for 1 month without selling and the update cost with skills to V were the ISK value of 3 out of the 50 modules. This new system is totally fun and engaging. So much more activity on the market and so much engaging and frequent market PVP. Itâs truly amazing.
The only people who like these changes are the lazy ones who could not be bothered with updating their orders regularly.
You just need to look at the following quote from Archer:
These bots donât relist, they just place another order with one or two items to make you relist. His assumption that âintelligent bots place competitive orders with slim marginsâ is complete bogus.
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Youâre so smart yet you fail to grasp the âfight fire with fireâ conceptâŚor your tears kept putting the flames outâŚeither or I guess.
Where you went wrong was assuming anyone would want to buy a 3kk isk rig for 9kk. Price things sensibly and they sell.
I think this change has helped producers who understand how much their products are worth and hurts relisters.
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Bots are still in the market being as much a menace as before. At least before this change you could fight back.
This change only helped the weak and the lazy, which seems to be the direction the world is taking. Hard work and long hours are no longer rewarded, replaced by everything âneeds to be fairâ.
If you want to make and sell DC II and Mag Stab II youâll eventually sell your product, but there is more profit in ratting for an hour. Thatâs all this market has become, high volume, low profit. I used to be big in Structure Rigs and T2 rigs, but they have tanked so bad itâs not worth the bother. Being a pure trader, moving goods from hub to hub is dead. Anything that sells somewhat slow is a death sentence for isk, may as well leave sit idle in your wallet.
I log in about 2 hours a week now, after deciding to spend my money and time elsewhere. Your RL wallet is the only real form of protest there is for dissatisfied players. I prefer a challenge, to test my abilities when playing a game. I wonât waste my time supporting lazy, whining players that canât be bothered to put the effort into a game and then wonder why they donât succeed at a high level.
3 Likes