No they’re not. EVE is marketed as a MMORPG. Your mind may be so narrow as to only imagine one playstyle, though.
And I’m not gonna read whatever crap you come up with as a reply. You’ve proven to be a dumbass, so no point in engaging with you any further.
I agree that it is; no insults necessary.
You can still market PVP after the introduction of relist fees - at major hubs or anywhere else. Relist fees make the “PVP” more accessible and fair (“no such thing as fair fights/fair fights are not fun” doesn’t apply to market - if anyone feels that they should, I invite them to invest in real world stock and literally enjoy their losses).
All I’m saying is that while market PVPers are enjoying wielding warhammers and casting ice spells and summoning animals for aid in order to slay wyverns and ogres across the economy MMORPG, the rest of us - almost the entirety of the EVE population - are undocked flying the ships + stations they’ve been trading in. Those of us focused on the undocked open-world are going to enjoy using an easier-to-use and more fair market thanks to relist fees.
Translation: I have no argument so I will just call you names and run away.
So my 2 rigs were sold for 3.3m each
Bought in Jita : 2 x 2.7m, put them for sale at a best price of 9m. Expecting a 12m profit if this patch kept its promise and none undercut me.
However, as expected, the patch ruined the operation :
Buy price = 2 * 2.7 = 5.4m
Taxes = .6(broker) + .3 (relist)+ .15 (sales) = 1.05m
Sell price = 2 x 3.3 = 6.6m
Gross Benefit = 1.2m (ROI 22%)
Net Benefit = .15m (ROI 3%)
Add to this 10m, the cost of hauling stuffs from Jita to Amarr
Conclusion
I passed 2 orders within 3 days, without using a bot and this patch did not help, it just ruined my gameplay.
I know @Archer_en_Tilavine, @Runa_Yamaguchi, I am doing it wrong. To work around this relist fees, I should use 10 accounts with 900 orders, I need to buy 1000 BPO and research them to the max, I need to buy my own keepstar to make it my own trading hub and all those fantastic advice you give us.
But, we don’t buy your ■■■■. this is a sandbox and we want to play the game our own way and as casually as we want.
Now, why bots are still here, and more than ever? The truth is that they are advantaged. They can micromanage thousands of micro orders on multiple accounts, hence minimizing their taxes. We can no longer compete against them…
@Runa_Yamaguchi. Stocks are companies shares… Eve market are commodities… These are different beasts. Commodities are these tomatoes you see when you get to a marketplace with your mum.
A lot of us, adults, are part of the manufacturing chain in real life and are literally making a living on it… Hopefully we don’t pay a 2% fee when we change the price on our tomatoes; we would leave the… game…
There’s only one solution to fix the market. Unsubscribe until better days… And I strongly encourage to test Albion, their market is just so good…
Real world markets are dominated by AI-driven automated trading.
You relisted within three days? On a commodity??? That is not how you’re supposed to relist.
Incorrect. I don’t need maxed BPOs to profit well in the supply chain. I could do it even with ME0TE0 copies. I don’t even do indy out of a structure, I use NPC stations. I’m not making as much profit as I could if I were using structures… but I’m still making good profit - and easily - because of how I set my prices and what my relist strategy is (almost never). My goods sell before the order expires at a price point comfortably better than the bleeding edge. Not hard to do. You just have to be patient. Don’t expect commodities to sell within three days, for starters.
You still can - and so can anyone else who chooses to undercut you with or without relist fees. It is ridiculous that you relisted after three days, though. Ridiculous.
You have the opportunity to learn how to use relist fees to your advantage. Learn the game to enjoy the game - learn from others who know better and can teach you. Or tell them they’re wrong for being more profitable and putting less time/effort into marketing than you and walk away, it’s up to you, really.
Expecting a 12m profit if this
Really? You didn’t notice how fishy that looked when checking all hubs and wonder why you were undercut? You don’t realize that you are probably being played while blaming bots and the patch?
Just a tip: The pros play the long game and don’t mind taking a hit on a few items if it means driving away competition…which is exactly what you are about to do. They win…I was in a long war with one guy in Hek selling drones…it was painful to go though hundreds of millions to just break even in the hopes I could drive him away…didn’t work in the end.
Please point out where this was claimed. I’d love to see that.
…and you are playing the SAME GAME against people that take it WAY more serious than you and do a better job of it. Who do you think will come out on top in that scenario? Hint: not you. You can play the victim card all you want buy you will go ZERO sympathy here…
Probably a good idea…
Also:
This is out of context. Relist fees do not penalize new orders, only existing ones that were relisted by impatient people. In general, relists should only be done if you priced your item such that it is unlikely to be traded before the order expires. (There are a few other situations when you relist, but they rarely come up.) The longer you’re willing to wait for an order to be traded, the more profitable you will be on that order when it eventually sells. You relisted because you were impatient and you literally paid the price for your impatience. That’s your fault.
Relist fees only accounted for 40% of those taxes, and this was an entirely optional fee you didn’t have to pay in order to sell the item within a reasonable window of time. If you waited, you would have sold the item and made more money.
@Runa_Yamaguchi, @Archer_en_Tilavine A game where a 10mn experiment gives the proof that 87% of your benefit goes into taxes is just broken, and not worth a cent.
This won’t change until the game is not fixed.
End of communication
Your logic is:
Becasue you think you are entitled. @Archer_en_Tilavine has already tried to explain this all to you so I wont just rehash it (poorly) again.
Your expectations and reality do not match. To use your line, “A lot of us, adults” look for what we are doing wrong, learn from that and adjust accordingly…the other group of people pout and run away while blaming everything but themselves.
Here is what you do:
1, undock, get stuff.
2, dock list stuff at resonable price
3, undock
Come back in 2 days, check on your sexy new balance.
I find trading works better the less I modify orders. Just set price intelligently.
be like me: sell evrything
enough with this madness, ccp pls!
The only anecdotal argument here is that this is “crushing the bots once and for all.” The truth is a bot can be written to adapt to anything.
The only thing this does is destroy players’ incentive to compete against them, and you see this larger and larger price variations as players give up trying to keep up. This doesn’t make it easier to profit, it makes profiting more random and unpredictable.
The only trend you’re going to see is bots dominating markets and physical players giving up. If anything, there will just be less commerce, which makes the economy worse for everyone.
{citation needed}
This argument is stupid because the argument is based on a stupid premise.
It doesnt matter if the relist fees or taxes took 10% or 40% or 80% of what you COULD have made.
What matters is how much YOU MAKE.
That NEVER changes
Increasing or decreasing taxes wont affect how much people expect to be paid for their time and effort.
They will adjust prices accordingly
Perhaps.
But these changes nonetheless really hurt smaller markets. Its one thing to take a flier on a stocking a low volume market with goods in the hope and you will make a sale when taxes and fees are low. Its another thing entirely when you have to pay high taxes/fees on sale that you reasonably know may never occur.
Don’t relist. If you are, you are in a hurry. That is called a fire sale. I made a couple Cerberus hulls. Afterwards I realized that their selling price was under my production cost. I priced them to pull in about a 2% profit, but it took nearly a month. This is a rational market, generally.
Just come back to Eve after a few years break. I made billions of ISK trading against, I assume, bots before this change. The relist charge puts a big damper on trading as a stream of income - it becomes a matter of place the sell order and home for the best. It makes selling at anything other than the current highest buy offer much less certain.