4 Digit precision:
This is similar to ‘tick’ size in commodity markets, and likely the simplest (code-wise) way CCP could replicate it. Fighting over 0.01 ISK on a multi-million ISK item is silly. However, with larger ticks will come larger bid/ask spreads and lower trading volume. Just look at when US stocks went the other way, to decimal from fractional - it increased volume and tightened spreads. Folks who dump their stuff into Jita buy orders may get a surprise. But overall, likely a good move.
Relisting Fee:
Since CCP just increased the tick size (above), it seems a little too much to introduce this adjusted mechanic at the same time. The 4-digit precision will slow trading on its own (bigger hit to the wallet to adjust your order). Perhaps waiting to see how the above works out would’ve been better.
Upwell Fees:
I would have gone with mandatory 1/2% regulatory fee from Upwells, while reducing NPC fees by that same 1/2% - just shift the ISK sink till you see how the changes from #1 and #2 above pan out.
Margin Trading:
This is absolutely asinine. Doing away with margin trading doesn’t hurt botters. The only justification seems to be to eliminate the margin scam. It’s fairly rare so my advice would’ve been to IGNORE it. But if you still HAVE to address it than parallel real markets, with CCP as the clearing house, guaranteeing the trades. In a real market, I don’t care how much money the other side has. I sell to a listed order and they buy it. If the buyer doesn’t have funds the clearinghouse/broker goes after them. You don’t have funds to complete the buy? CCP gives you a margin call - negwallets you AND freezes your account, assets, ISK, cancelling all your buy orders, reversing ISK transfers (90 days?) until you make good on the margin call. Punish the bad people for a change. Getting rid of margin trading is going to slow trading activity way down (pushing non-Jita hubs further off the beaten path), drop liquidity, again widen spreads, etc.
I (think I) see where they’re wanting to go with this, but they seem to be just trying stuff. However, in doing so they are taking on the real risk of crashing it. Then NO ONE will be happy.
CCP really needs to hire (again) someone with a finance/economic background.
None of this is about price, it is about how can you capture marketshare. In the real world there is a combination of branding and pricing. In Eve there is only price.
You may have noticed that in my response to Arrendis I changed the example to 998.01 for argument’s sake. I’m glad I work in a field where the definitions are unambiguous.
You’re half-right. It is a commodity market - just like crude oil, corn, etc. - the same principles apply such as supply/demand, bid/ask, liquidity, and so on. And maybe you’re selling to the end user or an intermediary, who knows?
Of course it is. It’s the realism argument for why removing 0.01 ISK wars makes sense. It’s simulating the behavior of an actual market, where making negligible price changes for the bread on the shelf at the grocery store doesn’t actually change consumer behavior.
The gameplay reason is that 0.01 ISK adjustments are bad for the game. It creates a situation where the only way to win is to obsessively monitor your market orders 23/7* so you can keep making the negligible price change to stay ahead of the competition. Under the new system you have to make a meaningful price change and you have to think carefully if it’s worth paying the change fee to do it. Now the market rewards good decisions, not giving up on your life outside of EVE to sit at your PC 23/7 or cheating with third-party botting tools.
*Which, in reality, translates to using a bot to do it for you.
Ok, but then that changes your entire argument. In EVE you wouldn’t be able to enter a price of 998.01 because it has five significant digits.
We all realize the four digit precision change is largely irrelevant right? If I’m managing 100bil ISK, and suddenly I can only change the price of broadswords to the 325,0xx,xxx digit… it’s chump change in the context of both the transaction and my bank account.
At least the citadel tax and the relisting fees have some sort of actual impact, but it’s basically the same deal as the broker’s fee and sales taxes changes previously, just some additional expense associated with using the market.
The elimination of margin trading is by far the most drastic change being introduced, radically reducing the amount of capital available in the market overall. This is where you should be thinking about the impact. Everything else in this release is small potatoes.
It has been a while since I bought commodities, but I thought the broker cost was fixed - whether you buy 1 contract or 100 contracts. Also, whether your buy order was 1 day or 1 month. The broker fees don’t scale with the item cost . . . why would they? Taxes would, but not broker fees.
I think it is an interesting change. I am a bit sa about the Margin Trading Skill beeing changed, since as a new producer that one really helped me to buy ressources. Concerning the new tax… to be honest i already wondered why it is so cheap to change the price.
Yeah, so my original argument still stands, it didn’t change because I used conventional rules to designate significant digits. For clarity’s sake I edited my first post from originally 999.99 -> 998.00 to 999.99 -> 998.01, change on the third significant digit. Everybody is ‘right’, now, whatever the rules, lol.
Obsessing people will still obsess, bots will still bot, instead of 0.01 isk gaming You will have small short term orders because relisting price is too prohibitive on big long term orders. There is no “right” price that guarantees that nobody undercuts You unless You are selling at a loss.
You can choose tiered or fixed, depending on your volume. And unless you instruct differently your order is good till filled or you cancel.
While commodity markets are a good comparison, I don’t think they’re a perfect apples-to-apples one. I believe CCP has to maintain some form of percentage fees and order expirations to slow the market down. They do want some barriers to trading. We would like liquidity, price discovery, etc. but at the pace suitable for a game, not a millisecond trading market.
Finally, after playing since 2009, I get the full Eve experience. CCP posting a Dev Blog about upcoming terrible changes that their playerbase will warn them about in the forum where they pretend to listen to us and then go do the awful thing anyway.
It’s happened a dozens of times before but, after all these years, it affects me so I get that personal connection I’ve been lacking.
“The only real constraint on modifications is the 5 minute timer…”
Why change the cost of relisting/modification cost? This only makes sense as an isk sink. This form of sink does not help traders or the game in any way. There are better ways to remove isk from the economy.
Bots are effective because they don’t make stupid pricing/modification mistakes and they don’t sleep. This is the only thing that is frustrating about them. They automate tedious and menial tasks such as making sure item ‘x’ is always at the top of the price column.
Change the timer: make it 1 hour, 2 hours, 12 hours, then everyone has an opportunity for at least a little while to be sorted to the top of the price column.
CCP: The company that ‘fixes’ the unbroken. Hilmar, dude, wtaf.