Please give some love to the trader

Communications Center General Discussion
1

My mother tongue is not English. Please forgive my writing.

I am a manufacturer and, of course, a trader. I spend most of my time in Jita. In the world of EVE, the players who like to manufacture and trade are small crowds. But anyway, we buy expensive blueprints and pay expensive taxes, helping EVE to reclaim ISK. We are an important part of the entire economic system.

EVE has a fully free market, we can set any price for goods, which is the basis of price strategy. The trading rules of market are very simple. If your order is in the first place, You have a better chance of completing the deal. Probably, I modify orders thousand of times every day. Steam says Iā€™ve been playing for 5700+ hours since I created the game character (2018.03.16). To be honest, itā€™s not fun do the same boring things so many times. Sometimes I wonder why CCP doesnā€™t make trading easier?

Anyway, in order to make ISK, there are always people willing to do it. Who cares? I canā€™t feel the love from CCP, even despised by PVP/PVE players.

But whatā€™s worse is that itā€™s not just boring, itā€™s also potentially dangerous. Every time an order is modified, the price must be carefully input. Whether it is more or less one digit or missing decimal point, it will cause significant losses. But we are not MACHINES. Thereā€™s a silly sell order on the market. Capital Core Defense Field Extender II, price 64B, Thatā€™s me. I missed the decimal point and EVE was happy to take away a lot of ISK.

2019.07.26 14:52:56 Brokers Fee -1,298,380,216 ISK 15,892,513,537 ISK Market order commission to broker authorized by: Orianna

It really hurts. I believe that I am not the only player who has similar experiences.

Why not add a simple option, if the order price range exceeds a certain proportion of the estimate value of the item (less than 10% or more than 1000%), the order can not be placed. Players who like aggressive pricing strategies can manually turn off the option.

Why not add a menu item to the right-click menu for orders - ā€œput order firstā€. The price of the sell order will be modified to 0.01 ISK lower than the lowest price, and similar the buy order.

The fun of trading comes from analysis, decision-making, regret for missing opportunities, not from being like a machine for order modification. Why donā€™t we do something really cool?

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2

Maybe because IRL if you trade a stock and input buy 1,000 shares when you wanted to buy 100 shares, itā€™s your mess to fix.

I donā€™t understand why people need their hands held all the time.

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3

It provides a warning and an ā€˜are you sure?ā€™ for extreme orders.

By the way, your english is very good!

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4

There usually is a warning, but itā€™s not reliable. I lost ~4B with a typo some months ago. In your case you may be lucky and get your fee back when you petition your mistake as it was an NPC fee.

5

Itā€™s already there, so go away.

6

Use a notepad, check your figures, copy paste.

No one does anything properly these days then blames their tools.

7

You can hover the mouse over the price and use the mouse wheel to do .00 donā€™t type in centā€™s only whole numbers and use the mouse wheel for the cents, that way its imposible to make the mistake also it gives you time to see if you typed it wrong.

8

It is reliable that the new option prohibits setting illegal prices.
Existing pop-up confirmation boxes do not have a clear warning, and can even be confirmed directly by press Enter, which is not very safe.

Repeat the same thing thousands of times a day, every time it needs to be examined carefully. In reality, similar work is gradually automated, let alone in the future EVE?

A hasty estimation. For me, It takes about 3 seconds to modify the order price each time. I guess millions of orders are modified every day in EVE. EVE has been online for 14 years.

1,000,000 * 3s * 365d * 14y = 15,330,000,000 seconds = 4,258,333 hours

Millions of hours of mechanical operation! there is no game fun!

Although EVE is a science fiction game, I hope CCP treats trader as human players, not machines.

9

You are the one treating yourself like machines :] some of the best traders in game spend less than 30 minutes a day modifying their orders, they just do it strategically.

0.01 isking is only necessary when you have very little working capital.

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10

Jesus ā– ā– ā– ā– ! Eve is not for you, get lost.

11

Thats not Capitalism then.

May as well have a set price for all commodities at the value of their manufacture plus labour.

T2 basic items would go through the roof, and BPCs would devalue overnight.

12

Weā€™re talking about how to improve the game experience, arenā€™t we?
EVE is perfect. Anyone who complains means heā€™s not fit for the game?

I love this game as much as you do, should we try to make the game better?

13

Thank you for your advice.

Recently, I have been gradually adjusting my strategy. But Iā€™m also a manufacturer. The production line is basically on a daily basis. I have to keep buying materials and selling products.

I can bear the loss caused by my own mistakes, and I can find ways to reduce the modification of orders. However, there will always be troubled players if the current order modification mechanism is not improved.

14

This thing that youā€™re trying to simplify or streamline is also a thing that provides some of the window to allow people to either be good or bad at trading.

Checking your figures and entering accurate amounts can be thought of as part of player skill. Errors cost money, and people who are fast and accurate make more isk than people who are slower or less accurate. If your skill was in putting in fast and accurate orders instead of market analysis, it would change your opinion on the issue, Iā€™d wager, and so I think it fair to suspect a bias in that opinion.

I have made the mistake of selling an item for a factor of 10 or 100 less than I intended. I felt stupid, and facing facts, I was stupid. After a good headdesk, I resolved to check my inputs more carefully and read any dialog that pops up instead of spamming the enter key.

I am also skeptical that if we take away checking for the correct values of the market entries that what remains would be ā€˜more funā€™. We could do things Ebay style where people just input their max and min bids and let the system handle it, but then thereā€™d be a lot less opportunity to excel, or ways to feel that your effort produces extra value. Thereā€™s a grey area where a convenience is really an automation, and I think this suggestion crosses that boundry, or comes close enough to require careful scrutiny.

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15

Thank you for your reply, so that I can find my blind spot.

Iā€™m a little confused. Is it a game to enter numbers correctly and quickly? After thousands of times, is it really fun?

I agree with you the changes may have a significant impact on the trading system. There will be more players involved in the market, more competition will reduce profits, professional traders will expand their scope to seek more opportunities, and eventually rebalance.

Ultimately, traders will be more observing, analyzing and speculating than struggling to enter numbers.

16

If you are a trader, it is the game to enter in buy and sell orders for sure. The frequency will have to play a part in that game because being first to market, in front of the consumer and so forth is the name of the game even IRL.

CCP is not preventing you from setting a order and leaving it. You are making the decision to constantly push that order to the top due to your own impatience. When you are impatient, mistakes will happen. This is not CCPā€™s fault, thatā€™s your fault.

In comparison, I could rush into a system, not scout it first, and die to a gate camp. Is it CCPā€™s fault I died to the gank or my fault? If you feel the issue is the fact people can gate camp and choke out a system, then you are the problem.

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17

If you realised your mistake Immediately, took a screen shot of it then adjusted it back to the correct price and took a screen shot again and submitted it to the GMā€™s saying you made a genuine error - likely they will reimburse you the lost isk. You need to be quick about it tho - no good leaving the order up for hours, it needs to be rectified immediately.

It happened to me once and I was lucky enough to get the tax back.

There is a little popup window that tells you your order is either too high or too low above average - you may have disabled the message at some time so check your settings and re-enable it - Itā€™s saved me numerous times o.O

18

OP, actions have consequences, mistakes have consequences.

Wanting the game to protect us against any possible consequences of our own mistakes is against the spirit of EvEā€¦wellā€¦at least wasā€¦

You are the one making yourself a machine. Stop doing the .01-isk ridiculousness and sell more strategically.

Rather than spending 6 hours babysitting market orders .01 .01 .01 .01 x million spend one hour looking for information that will help you set up more strategic orders and set them up.

It seems you are in the classic make-EvE-a-job trap. Donā€™t be that guy.

btw - your English is goodā€¦better than some who have it for their first language.

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19

This exists. Turn the warning back on.

Maybe. I think better, would be to off a ā€œlazyā€ option like this, but with say a 1% delta from the current active price This would shift market play around the 0.01 ISK meta and perhaps help prices reach a proper equilibrium faster.

Otherwise, just own your mistakes. If you trade enough, you will benefit from the mistakes of others.

Be more careful. And be man enough to tip your hat to those that benefit from your lapses.

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20

Trading certainly does have some risks

Put an order on in my home system some weeks back, luckily it was my home system. I had reversed the quantity and buying price. I kind of panicked I thought I was going to lose billions and that damn 3 minute timer, waiting for that 3 minutes my heart was getting faster my hands started shaking, shaking so much be the end of the 3 minutes it took awhile to actually click on the cancel order button. Afterwards I realised it wouldnā€™t have been billions but 100ā€™s of millions.

Anyway, 2 days ago I reversed the price with the quantity again, this time the order completed straight away. I had purchased 350 heavy missiles for 52,500,000 isk.

I would say that Iā€™ll never do that again, but I know damn well I will at some point in the future.

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