To be honest, this is a thing that already kinda happens, so no big change here. I havent abused it yet, but its already easy to get the price down quite a bit by seeling a bit of something cheap. There are already people putting stuff on the market for more then the 0,01 ISK difference, and there is always a bunch of people following. I saw prices for stuffing going down 20-30% this way within a few hours.
I am a very confused manufacturer and trader.
It has been stated that about 1.3% of all trades are possibly made by botting activity and therefore a Relist fee needs to be added and Margin trading needs to be eliminated.
I have 6 accounts that are filled with manufacturing/trading alts. I actively trade while my manufacturing jobs are running, whether itâs selling my built products, trading a good item spread, sending items to other regions or buying mats for my next run of manufacturing jobs.
I do not like bots anymore than anyone else. However, the question needs to be asked âWhy as a very ACTIVE player, am I being punished because of a possible 1% bots?â If you know that itâs about 1% bots, why not just monitor and punish a portion of that 1%? I could understand this change if it were 20% or 50% suspected botting activity, but not 1% of the total trades.
If i understand correctly, if I keep my current VERY ACTIVE play style, I will taxed into oblivion? So instead of logging my trading alts into EvE 4-5 times a day to update orders, I will only need to log them into EvE once or twice per week? Maybe not even that much because of the new tax system? Also, Margin trading is a very important part of any real world market.
So your goal is to get me to play less?
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They stated it was a small fraction of 1.3% of all trades âŚ
From memory 1.3% of all trades were modified more than 8 times.
As far as I can see this isnât about that at all. Thatâs a cover for the real motive.
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Again, these changes donât just affect you. They affect your competitors.
There should be less competitors for your buy orders because of the margin trading nerf. There should be less overcutting of your orders and they should fill better because of the new relisting fee. Your buy orders will be move valuable and rarer because of the lack of margin loans. As was said, if anything, this will make it more of a buyers market for buy orders and the reduced liquidity will hurt the sellers.
This wonât really work for items with large volumes or small ones that are sold mostly in this one or a few units. Plus any bot that tries will quickly drive the price down to the equilibrium where there is no margin because of the significance limit. A bot running continuously will push the margin down by 1.2% each hour meaning even without the listing fee, markets would have all the trading margin squeezed out rapidly by a few bots.
Reaching an equilibrium price efficiently where buyers and sellers are maximally happy and volumes exchanged are the highest is exactly what you as a manufacturer want. This only sucks for the day traders flipping stuff.
Well, I am afraid that is what is on the menu tonight. Sometimes, like in the case of leberkäse, names donât reflect reality.
Iâd suggest though you at least stick around and see what the dish looks like before you storm out of the restaurant. I have a feeling you wonât dislike the taste as much as you think you will right now!
Hanlonâs razor: âNever ascribe to malice that which is adequately explained by incompetenceâ
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If CCP ever reads this, could you guys make an article detailing why you removed margin trading? I am interested in the reasoning. Was it used 100% for scams? Underutilized? I am curious!
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It is unfortunate that the graphs in the dev blog are not linked to (relative) ISK value of the orders and volume (bulk ? retail ?). It would at least improve our understanding 
You are assuming, that bots and 0.01 iskers will keep to use the same existing relist strategy as they currently use. They wonât because it will become suboptimal for bots and players alike. It will be much safer/beneficent to use micro orders that will quickly complete and post new order in the same vacated spot and at the same price.
Guess, what. Those pesky traders flipping stuff are exactly what allows the market to be liquid and reach equilibrium. Say I come on Wednesday with all my outputs that I need to trade in to buy new inputs. If there are no traders to flip around mu stuff sold to them at discount I will not buy new inputs to launch new production jobs and my industry alts will not earn their keep for next week. The more market transactions become taxed the less realistic is for small player groups to collaborate on different sub stages of production chain and only completely vertically integrated mega entities will survive.
There will be no more âmy buy ordersâ. Committing to a big wholesale order in âChaos Eraâ where CCP plays around with supply and demand all the time? One I will be taxed again and again to reflect dynamic changing prices and unstable market? Are You Mad? There is no fixed long term stable equilibrium price.
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A question for those of you with a more detailed knowledge of programming etc than I do: would the change to 4SF affect the market databaseâs size/performance?
I assume most consumers just buy / sell stuff and donât care about the price nor market mechanics at all. The problem will be with the manufactures (who have to also source large amount of ingredients) and the traders wanting to sell for a profit.
Less traders / bots means less liquidity, less fair prices, other hubs than Jita/Perimeter will die even more. Also finally TTT gets rid of all potential competition with setting the fee to 1% because there is no reason to use something else if it canât be cheaper than that.
For me personally I donât expect too much problems on the selling side, as Iâm following the small amount many orders scheme for a while to compete with bots. But how I can source billions of value in minerals for my production lines easily in the future I have to see. Maybe making contracts to miners directly âŚ
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It effects market liquidity. The more liquidity a market has, the better the market overall.
This will also hurt players that sell low volume, high valued goods, like large and extra large structure rigs for example. Some of these items may only sell once every 3 months. Every order that moves from the market to contracts, hurts that hub market.
Purchasing goods from the contract system is far less efficient than using the Jita market.
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It will be interesting to see how people deal with competition in their respected market after these changes, as there is now a much bigger advantage that would come from finding ways to impede and push out your competition. Assuming traders simply donât quit trading because of these changes, we should see an uptick in market-related PVP.
Iâm completely against this change. As a new player, I make my way in new eden via fair trading (no scams); and I do make use of the current margin trading skill. The only way Iâve been able to do this as a new player is having margin where I donât have to put up all my ISK. I use the margins to buy ships I use as well as buy products that I sell. The current system works.
BTW, to think about âplayer run economyâ would really mean CCP âHANDS OFF!!!â
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Removing margin trading will heavily favor rich players because they are the only ones who have enough isk in their bank to have hundreds of high-value orders open. Thatâs the main reason why this change is so devastating for income equality. Because in terms of player numbers, most of the orders made in the market are made by small to mid-sized traders. When their profits are reduced to only 1/5th the previous income why wouldnât they switch to nullsec ratting?
Who are the only ones who has enough ISK to fill in the gaps then? The trillionaires.
Blockquote It effects market liquidity. The more liquidity a market has, the better the market overall.
I really dont understand how this is supposed to be an argument. A lot of liquidity is good sure, but the problem CCP wants to adress is fixing that even though there is liquidity, prices wont change. There can be 10 people that compet for a spot, yet this will not influence the price since the for a BS will change maybe 10 ISK within a day.
And of course traders wont just stop trading a few might, and others will use the openingn to start or enhance their operations. This debatte is very centring about station traders, and ignores that there are other more fun ways of trade that actually will profit from the fact, that you can leave the station knowing that your order actually might hold up for a bit.
Thats a bad change basically dropping a traders income to 1/5 of what it used to be, imagine doing that to null-sec mining, you would lose half the player base, not a fair change to be honest
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Trading is a very easy and riskless way of turning a profit, it´s balancing it out and will actually require some skill now.
PvE is an easy and riskless way of turning profit, and a major ISK faucet. Traders are ISK sinks and necessary for any meaningful interactions between players. Force them out and now everyone will have to become a trader to keep playing, producing or even buying more stuff to blow up. Hope You like Eve becoming more and more like a second job.
Are you saying EVE requires skill? 
It doesnât really. Just experience and thinking ahead. Not much skill per se.
I mean back in the day of small gang roams and solo PVP maybe you needed skill. An FC needs skill. But please ⌠keep it in perspective 
To say trading didnât require skill before is ignorant and pretty insulting.