Broker Relations

Bots actually have huge advantage in approximating both Y and Z. One can easily retrieve the orders in a region and track exactly how individual orders get filled and how they move. That’s a lot of information for a human to digest, so one needs a tool that presents some kind of summary statistics. Bots, on the other hand, can incorporate this fine-grained information in the core of their engines and adapt immediately to market changes. Same goes for managing the bunch of small stacks with an optimal strategy that minimises the total number of relisted orders.

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sorry but those mean nothing.
What you can say, is that widgets are sold by average quantity Q with an average number of sale per 1 min S (let’s assume they are constant over an hour) . So the average rate is S*Q items per minute.
That’s important, because if your sell order are of size below Q( actually below Q max spread), then they won’t tale all the sale - meaning you actually reduce your sell rate.

if eg plex are sold by 100-5000 quantities, with a median quantity 500, and average 4 orders per minute, if you place 1-plex offers one after the other, even with 100% visibility you will only fill 4 orders of 1 plex per minute instead of 2000 so literally 0.2% of the market exchanges.

Then if you are going with 500 plex offers (in order to fill half the orders), you will still not have 100% of the orders.

That’s assuming you are alone on the market. (forgetting the error you may have made in the formula)
If you are not alone, people will place new orders with a rate N per minute in order to cut you (typically 0.3). With 3 people that means you have a visibility of 33%, so that means any order you place is visible for less than 1 minute. so V being the chance that there is less than your quantity amount sold during 1 min, each order will literally be stuck with a prob V (let’s say 0.25). Which means that after M minutes, you added N×M orders, with N×M×V orders being very small and not sold out. In the example, it means per hour you lose 0.25×0.3×60 = 4.5 orders

What you’re trying to describe is what I wrote here :

You are not. Unless you are alone on the market, of course. You are literally letting orders die in order to not pay the tax - that means losing more than the tax, from broker fees. Good job.

lol ? If your algorithm is bad, you will remain at loss. Period.

The first one is already the case, and the second one is a good thing.
The goal is not to delete bots. The goal is to reduce their effect on the game.

That’s happening now. I mean, I do "a bit " of industry.

That’s why you should report that time on the price of your items.
that’s the basic of industry : if it cost “time”, or “investment”, that should be considered in the price of the item. Before the margin.

And maybe it was not a bot.
I was cutting back someone who was cutting me a lot(by using small orders). I think he thought I was a bot since I had very fast reaction. Then I dump a lot of items with a huge cut, reaching above my margin limit. he moves all his orders to -0.01, then I move all my small orders to 0.8* (my value) by small increments and I cut him. I drove him to 0.8, so I just canceled my little orders as other people were putting their orders below his.in the end we went from 1.5 (that’s the maximum price I sell my items) to 0.8, and I’m pretty sure he believed I was a bot at first.

Yes, it is.

It’s your choice to produce items that are worth only 10% margin. If the margin is so low, don’t even start to produce.
Also yes, it’s better to let your order EITHER with more than 10+0.7= 10.7% margin, and then allow to move it later for once below that threshold; OR if it’s below 10.7% margin, don’t update it.

Yes you literally did. That’s why your post is stupid.

That’s not an explanation. That’s a stupid claim. You just keep claiming things stupid.

“no, it’s you”.
At this point, you have literally nothing to add and realize that you were stupid all along.

“easily”. Just as easily as non-bot program would do.
That’s also a lot of information for a program to digest, and the digest must be coded by a human - with all the bugs this can imply.

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No i never did say anything about bypassing any fees. Stop claiming I did.

Once again you are so wrong. SMH.
This is trivial, unless you are an amateur developer who dont know what you are doing. The bulk of the processing time would not be actual processing, but downloading the hundreds of market data pages from the ESI endpoints. But you could use multithreading and cut down the time a lot.
Once you have the data, coding the rest is easy.

No it’s not. You have no possibility to distinguish if an order has been completed or canceled by the owner.
It’s just an example of why you are talking out of your arse. Not the only one actually.

You never download 200 pages sequentially , “unless you are an amateur developer who don’t know what you are doing”. It just shows that you actually have no idea what you are talking about.
The issue is not the retrieval of data, it’s the extraction of meaningful information. Because the way you see it, and the way it actually is, are two different things. Downloading the pages is child’s play, you have tools for event-driven model of the market that allow you to make triggers when you are eg cut, when an item becomes worth investing in, etc.

Having the list of the present order, every 5 minutes, is not even relevant to being a problem. If you are talking about that as any issue, then you are “an amateur developer who dont know what you are doing”.

Yes, you literally answered to me saying that bots would still sell at loss if they keep updating the orders, that no because small orders.
“At this point you are incredibly low IQ, or just trolling.”

why don’t you two just quote what the other person actually said, just to avoid all the miscommunication

I already try. The forum removes the quote when it’s the previous message though

^in this message I quote you but the forum did edit my post to remove it^

that’s why there is a number of edit : 1 on it, even though I did not edit it.

Imgur

does this work:
“in this message I quote you but the forum did edit my post to remove it”

Jita alone was well over 200 pages a few months ago when I last did it. Fact.

And what do you mean you don’t download 200 pages sequentially? CCP’s ESI is a 3rd party service, and 3rd parties usually may restrict or ban requests depending on a myriad of different factors.
Opening tens of threads, each one performing one market data page request at the same time, and doing this for the 1000+ of data pages that exist, would be a great way for their dev team to notice you and ban you.

It’s not irrelevant to get market data every 5 minutes. Bots usually work on the market for the region they are in, but they lack the overall panorama, because the bot operators don’t care about such things. A great trader bot would not only trade on the market of his own region in realtime - it would also check the pricing of items across the entire universe and how they move, to make informed decisions or alert his operator about opportunities.

And I never said it’s an issue, I said the bulk of the processing TIME would be downloading the data because of this intentional throttling. Once you’ve got the data and you’ve coded your use cases against it, carrying out the processing would take a few seconds.

Quotes work just fine, but he misinterprets every comment. He claims I said bots could bypass the relist fee, when in reality I stated that low volume order relisting would incur in less absolute losses than higher volume orders. He claims I meant bots with low volume orders just BYPASS the fee completely. At this point im convinced he’s just trolling, I mean, he does not even acknowledge that a single person could use alts to work around the order limit.

Quotes work just fine. Just type [quote] and then close it, and copy paste the message between the tags and they will be ok. It’s just he doesnt know how to use it properly. WHAT A SURPRISE !!!

Thank you for proving you are an amateur dev and are talking out of your arse.

No, you just can’t have exact data from the ESI about what is sold. You can have an approximate, but then several thing will be misleading and you need to fix them with historical data.

Learn to read, I did not claim that the processing would take time.

I answered to

And my point is that it’s not “easy” to track exactly “how individual orders get filled and how they move.”

And to that you answer “but you can download data” ?
Learn to keep the context in mind when you answer, idiot.
It’s the second time you answer to my post as if there was a different context. It only shows that you are stupid.

So you mean: (if i have this right), that you WILL probably be stuck with ‘dead’ orders, but if you split your stack into tiny amounts, only some of those will be dead, instead of potentially the entire stack? Yes?

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Worth repeating! The optimal strategy will be to place small orders, and then replace them as soon as the previous order is filled. Bots will love it, humans will hate it.

No, he means that when all the orders are dead the bot will create a new alpha account to have access to more free orders, because “alts are a thing”.

And this is a change compared to now because … no reason ?

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Anderson Geten, no need to reply to me. You are blocked, remember?

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Then why are you replying exactly ? Because you NEED to reply me ?

Weren’t you claiming that “correlation IS a causation, trust me I have a PhD” again ?

Anderson, please work on your reading comprehension. Since you are blocked, that means I don’t read your messages, so you are just talking to yourself hun. Lots of people all across the forum have told you that you have a problem - get help friend.

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3rd party services will ban you if your requests exceed a certain threshold and they have a policy against that. The most restrictive ones will even automate it so you will get your ban the instant it happens.
I am not sure what CCP’s policy is or if they have anything in place, but I am not going to find out
It does happen, I’ve seen it happen (not in EVE though).

And I’m answering to your

My answer to this is it is quite trivial to code.

Hahah Man, I’m sure CCP employees have a real-size poster of you in their office. Every time they are reluctant to pull of a change or lie to the playerbase, they look at your avatar’s face and they get encouraged.

A: “We cannot do this, it’s so obvious, they will notice and unsubscribe”
B: “Nah, remember Anderson Geten - we also have players like him who will always white-knight us”
A: “But he’s incredibly ignorant on so many levels”
B: “His money is just as good”
A: “You are right let’s get on with it”

You just said

and one post below

HAHAHAHAHAHAH You made me laugh so much with that. Dude, your blood pressure. Im seriously getting worried about you. At this point this thread should be renamed “Broker Relations, or Anderson Geten vs all”
ROFL

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Yeah now you realize your point was stupid all along and you go on personal attacks only.

Nice to show your true personality : claim BS, then attack the person.

Also thank you for proving you are an amateur dev and are talking out of your arse.