Broker Relations

[Aiko_Danuja]

Anderson is known for her bad behavior all around the forum.

[Anderson_Geten]

And Aiko is know for claiming that “correlation is causation” while linking article that actually state exactly the opposite.

A true model of stupidity.

[Optimus_Maximus]

That’s fine, to be fair, it’s entertaining. But it really worries me how angry the persona behind the Anderson Geten actually is when reading and replying to these comments.

[Aiko_Danuja]

I feel sorry for her, she must be lonely in real life.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Optimus_Maximus

That’s fine, to be fair, it’s entertaining. But it really worries me how angry the persona behind the Anderson Geten actually is when reading and replying to these comments.

While you are so butt hurt by the incoming change that you keep claiming BS about

• how bots will bypass the new relist fee with small orders,
• that being limited in active orders won’t be an issue,
• that you can fetch the exact modification on the market from the ESI,
• that the ESI is rate limited to tens of calls at the same time.
• that your point magically makes sense when you are start insulting people.

Are you done proving that you are an amateur developer ?

[Optimus_Maximus]

@Anderson_Geten

While you are so butt hurt by the incoming change that you keep claiming BS about

• how bots will bypass the new relist fee with small orders,
• that being limited in active orders won’t be an issue,
• that you can fetch the exact modification on the market from the ESI,
• that the ESI is rate limited to tens of calls at the same time.
• that your point magically makes sense when you are start insulting people.

Are you done proving that you are an amateur developer ?

1- I never claimed such thing. It’s been stated several times we meant that it will be easier for bots to corner the market by using lower volume orders. People can do it too, but bots have the advantage of being automated.
2- It won’t, because the person behind a bot could create a 2nd character. Or a 3rd. Etc. etc. etc. The only way to limit this is to prevent Alphas from accessing the market altogether.
3- You dont fetch the exact modifications - you fetch the entire dataset every so many minutes, compare them, and calculate the DELTA. You know, there are far more complicated systems in the world that work under this basis. I know because I’ve worked on one. EVE’s market data is really simple - it even is just a single data source.
4- Im not saying it’s limited. I’m saying I’m wary of opening tens of threads calls to request data from the ESI at the same time. I don’t want to test what the threshold for banning / throttling is.
5- You are just ignoring everything everyone says, making up a small imaginary world in your mind where people have said what only want them to say, so that you can come back and retort that imaginary argument you have made yourself believe they have said. Troll.

[Zoltan_Irvam]

@Anderson_Geten

And maybe it was not a bot.
I was cutting back someone who was cutting me a lot(by using small orders). I think he thought I was a bot since I had very fast reaction. Then I dump a lot of items with a huge cut, reaching above my margin limit. he moves all his orders to -0.01, then I move all my small orders to 0.8* (my value) by small increments and I cut him. I drove him to 0.8, so I just canceled my little orders as other people were putting their orders below his.in the end we went from 1.5 (that’s the maximum price I sell my items) to 0.8, and I’m pretty sure he believed I was a bot at first.

I don’t know if it was a bot. It was one pilot having 5 buy orders for the same small amount (I sold a few single units to them and it was the same pilot) and updating them within a second or two by the minimum amount (+0.01 ISK) whenever an order beside his own was on top.

Since some people tried the “offer a fair price” tactics a few times, the spread quickly vanished, then the sell orders near the new price were bought out equally quickly, so there was a spread again and the game went on.
At that point the price was double of the former buy price and I didn’t bother any more and used my stock.

I looked at it again a few days later and the price had peaked at three times of the former buy price but then gone down a bit to about double.

This was btw. without the extra incentives for this kind of behavior CCP is going to introduce now.
In the future we will either see only a few small orders on the market (as updating larger ones is prohibitively expensive) if the bot is not contested or market running full speed up for buy orders or falling down for sell if there is competition.
With equally small orders and thus no big volume in the market in case somebody wants to buy/sell to/from orders in bulk.

[Anderson_Geten]

@Optimus_Maximus

I never claimed such thing. It’s been stated several times we meant that

Yes you literally claimed that, again. Learn to keep the context in mind instead of sperging just because the person does not agree with you.

But whatever, keep crying, you are so butthurt it’s not even funny anymore.

@Optimus_Maximus

you fetch the entire dataset every so many minutes, compare them, and calculate the DELTA.

and the delta DOES NOT allow you to track exactly the orders.

@Optimus_Maximus

Im not saying it’s limited.

Yes you literally did :

@Optimus_Maximus

Opening tens of threads, each one performing one market data page request at the same time, and doing this for the 1000+ of data pages that exist, would be a great way for their dev team to notice you and ban you.

So yes you are - again - talking out of your arse.

@Optimus_Maximus

You are just ignoring everything everyone says, making up a small imaginary world in your mind where people have said what only want them to say, so that you can come back and retort that imaginary argument you have made yourself believe they have said. Troll.

Thank you for that perfect example of you claiming BS and then insulting the person.

@Zoltan_Irvam

and updating them within a second or two by the minimum amount (+0.01 ISK) whenever an order beside his own was on top.

Market cache in game is limited to … 30s ? so you can’t consistently update the orders less than 15 s delay, unless you have orders that are passed (when an order passes, it forces the refresh of the ig cache) that fast (that means average 30 order passed by minute)

@Zoltan_Irvam

In the future

time will tell. You are just making approximations, that ignore so many parameters that they are just fantasms.

[Rheinhard_Kurtz]

In the future we will either see only a few small orders on the market (as updating larger ones is prohibitively expensive)

I have seen lots of sell orders disappearing from Jita in the last few days - lots of sell windows look very empty - this maybe just people hiding and waiting, or what the future is going to look like

[Bachet_Tsuruomo]

That is my feeling too here in Rens, at least the items I watch. And, I did the same, I cancelled all the buy orders which I think may become unprofitable after the change, i.e. most of them. I will wait and see how it goes.

[Rheinhard_Kurtz]

A case in point:
Barrage L (500k+ units sold/day) in Jita right now:
People selling: 4.

• well that’s actual orders, so it may well be fewer people than that

[Anderson_Geten]

There has been shortages of mats/modules/ammos for several weeks. I even sold phoons for 220M.

[Sheldon_d_Albion]

@Rheinhard_Kurtz

So you mean: (if i have this right), that you WILL probably be stuck with ‘dead’ orders, but if you split your stack into tiny amounts, only some of those will be dead, instead of potentially the entire stack? Yes?

I don’t know what he means
I just want to point out, that with lower stack or bigger stack , the result will be the samein the present market with really slow speed.
And the number of order is limited as soon as all being used you are ending up with the same issue .
I am supposing that after a while all traders react this way a lot of order with smaller stacks.
Everyone will be mistaken if they believed that the cost of teh relist will prevent the traders to move your order , there will be ( blood) more traders fighting for their instant margin rather than to speculate in a more interesting margin in few weeks/month .

[Rheinhard_Kurtz]

Yes, i was thinking that this will all mean that either

1. the market will slow to a crawl (less profit for everyone)
2. the market will continue, but with traders suffering loads more fees (less profit for everyone)
3. people will stop manufacturing (less profit for everyone, well some)
4. Sell prices will get jammed down towards Cost, and stay there (less profit for everyone)

[Bachet_Tsuruomo]

@Sheldon_d_Albion

I am supposing that after a while all traders react this way a lot of order with smaller stacks.
Everyone will be mistaken if they believed that the cost of teh relist will prevent the traders to move your order , there will be ( blood) more traders fighting for their instant margin rather than to speculate in a more interesting margin in few weeks/month .

There is a German saying:
“Besser der Spatz in der Hand, als die Taube auf dem Dach”
“Better the sparrow in the hand, as the pigeon on the roof”

[Runa_Yamaguchi]

@Rheinhard_Kurtz

people will stop manufacturing (less profit for everyone, well some)

People will keep manufacturing as prices will rise but they will sell in bulk via contracts rather than in the market…

[Optimus_Maximus]

I bet on 2 and 4. I believe that’s what they are trying to achieve - kill the station trading intermediate layer between sellers / buyers to stop the price spread. We’ll have to wait and see how it goes.

[Rheinhard_Kurtz]

and that’s the problem with 4 - if there’s no profit in manufacturing, only massive corps that can live on large volume sales, at tiny% profits will be in the market - and there goes my income (the bastards)

[Bachet_Tsuruomo]

Thereby killing the buffer in between the seller and buyer.
Suddenly there will be no more buyer for the one to dump his wares, and no more seller for the one who needs something.

Those bad flippers did invest money and time and kept the world running, imho.

[Aiko_Danuja]

There’s a reason wholesale warehouses exist in real-life. Individuals with capital buy in bulk, ensuring a faster return for industrialists, who can then re-invest in their production. The wholesale trader receives a discounted price on goods they don’t need or want, and they then assume the risk and hassle of distributing and selling the product.

By increasing taxes on price changes and long-term offerings, CCP is going to discourage people with capital from investing, and this will discourage industrialists from producing, which means that consumers will have difficulty obtaining commodities. Unless you enjoy building and producing everything from scratch, this update is likely to be a source of frustration, as it will undermine the efficiency of the market.