Bumping JFs on landing on lowsec-to-hisec gates

Issues, Workarounds & Localization General Issues
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A new Bump tactic for JFs landing on lowsec-to-highsec gates has been found. Here’s an example kill: https://zkillboard.com/kill/64210104/

Basically, a guy in a fast cruiser like a Stabber Fleet Issue with a 500 MN MWD sits on the gate and waits for a JF to warp to it. It then moves to the exact spot where the JF lands, activates its MWD, and then hits Approach on the JF. As soon as the JF lands, it is bumped off the gate because the cruiser model clips into it with increased mass from the MWD.

The reason you don’t just Jump through the gate is because it takes a second for the server to “check” to see if you are eligible to Jump through the gate after you land. Collisions and such that cause bumping DO NOT follow the same rules, and will happen AS SOON AS YOU LAND, not a second later! So you’re flying off the gate by the time the 1st tick hits and OOPS you are no longer in range to jump!

There is just one defense against this bump tactic for the JF pilot and it’s to jump out to an exit cyno within the first second of the bump. There is a specific way to do this:

1 - Have an exit cyno ready in another system, preferably on a citadel.

2 - WARP to the gate. NEVER JUMP to the gate!! If you do, your JF will ignore any Jump to Cyno commands you give it because it’s trying to jump the gate.

3 - Open D-scan and scan the gate (look at and reduce the scan cone angle). If you see anything suspicious you should undock your Cyno alt from its NPC station or just prepare yourself mentally if the cyno is on a cit.

4 - Once the gate grid loads and you see what’s there and there are, in fact, ships MOVING on the gate, you better get ready to jump out.

5 - Once your JF is almost on the gate, light your exit Cyno and right-click your Capacitor -> Jump To -> Cyno alt BUT DON’T CLICK IT YET!!

6 - You land, WARPING is replaced with your speed HIT THAT “JUMP TO CYNO” TO AVOID CERTAIN DEATH!!

You immediately get bumped off the gate and locked, but if you did it just right the pirate won’t have time to land a scram/point and you’ll jump out to safety.

This is not foolproof either. I actually lost a Rhea to this despite having absolutely everything on that list done and actually practicing the procedure on SISI after another friend of mine lost their JF to the same deal and we were trying to devise an escape method. I think the reason I died is because I just got very unlucky and my command to jump did not actually register until the 2nd tick, by which time I was scrammed and therefore dead.

If you find people doing this in your lowsec-to-hisec gate system you should very strongly consider avoiding the system or just running your JF during ghost hours while no one else is on because there is literally nothing else you can do about it.

@CCP_Falcon What do you think about this? I personally feel it’s very exploity, or at the very least incredibly unfair given the range of options a JF pilot has to escape their fate and how easy and low-risk it is for a perpetrator to instigate this sort of bump.

Edit: Forgot to link an example fit for the cruiser https://zkillboard.com/kill/64162120/

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How safe do people want to be in this game? A jump freighter is a ship like any other and it is supposed to die from time-to-time.

It sounds to me there a several things you can do to avoid someone camping an outgate with a method that requires them to be on the exact spot where you land in a ship you can always just shoot. I won’t enumerate them here, but is sounds like you just don’t want change and are asking for CCP to make the bad guy go away for you so you can go back to your easy-mode hauling.

Risk-free was never suppose to be a thing. Occasionally haulers were suppose to be interdicted and spark a fight. I think Upwell structures and their excess safety have hurt the game more than many realize and will lead to more and more entitled requests like this one.

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Why is this an issue? You die, because you took the direct route from gate to gate. People, who move frigates, shuttles a d pods through lowsec, know not to do that. Your case is not different and solvable by using the same tactics.

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I guess, if you don’t have a suitable station choice or citadel, this won’t make a difference. Stopping at an intermediate safe would also be your certain death.

EDIT: OP, did you try a near gate bookmark “on the other side”?

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Yeah, JFs are too safe, we should leave exploits in the game to correct that.

Also you’re free to go try to shoot them. They have a Nyx. Hope you have 10+ dreads.

I’m currently trying to figure out how I could do that. It’s difficult because you land anywhere in a 2500m radius sphere when you warp to a bookmark. My current best solution is to make a bookmark inside the gate itself and pray my JF doesn’t get bumped too hard by the gate.

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It ain’t an exploit. Maybe it will be some day, but it ain’t yet.

I’m not CCP Falcon and won’t presume to speak for him or anyone else at CCP. But I think some of his words are appropriate for this situation:

If you want your haulage to be safer, bring the guns. If you don’t have any guns, sacrifice some of your profit margin and hire someone who has them to escort you.

Welcome to New Eden, you just learned a very valuable lesson in being prepared and covering your back.

My advice: stop asking for CCP to make you safe and just play the game and do it yourself. There are bigger fish to fry than removing one of the last tiny windows of vulnerability for a JF because someone feels it “exploit-y” that he lost one once.

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Punishing the creative, because those who aren’t creative can’t deal with the new situation, seems to be CCP’s line of thinking, though…

people: "it’s not my fault. they’re bad people. i’m the victim. the game needs to change."
ccp: “yeah, you’re right. we change the game for the minority of people you represent, because it’s not your fault at all”

tell me that i’m wrong. please. thanks.

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Breaking citadel tethers with ECM bursts was also “creative”. Yet most of the people who did this were banned, huh, wonder why.

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Ohh if this isn’t an exploit I would love to know ASAP because you can bet I’ll be doing this myself. I can bring 50 disposable vexors, sit them somewhere inconspicuously and just try to bump JFs off some lowsec gate all day. The moment it happens, the JF will be dead within 100 seconds. And no, your defense fleet won’t be able to stop it.

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well, then do it. and then post proof that you did it. :slight_smile:

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Bumping or otherwise influencing someone’s ship while they are undergoing session change is not exactly what I would call a CCP-approved ultra-creative “you go girl” activity. I’ll move stuff into place but until @CCP_Falcon or someone else says it’s ok I won’t jeopardize my accounts.

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Session change? You don’t start a session change until you click jump while in range of a gate. This just sounds just like an lumbering, vulnerable transport ship getting bumped from the gate before being able to jump unescorted in dangerous space.

Well, I am not the one you have to convince. Still, I think your time would be better spent working on those counters, or arranging to bring those guns, instead of waiting for CCP to patch out some core gameplay to save you from having to adapt to a new tactic yourself.

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My tactic is a lot simpler: I picked another lowsec-to-highsec system.

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See? That wasn’t so hard.

We might make an Eve player of you yet.

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This is probably a dumb question, but how does the hunter know where to park the bumping cruiser? By which I mean, how do they know exactly where the JF will land when it exits warp? I’ve never looked into it, but I would have thought the JF would land in a 2,500m radius of the gate.

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Select the JF with tactical overview and it will show you the direction of flight vector. Move to that vector, put yourself at 2km from the gate, and then activate the MWD. Once they slow to land, double-click in their direction. If they land and you’re inside them, you’ve already won.

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Man. People are so much better at this game than I am :rofl:

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i hope you embrace the fact. :slight_smile:

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lol, I recognize it. Embracing it would be a little strange.

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i enjoy the fact that there are people who are smarter than me, because it’s the best way to learn. yesterday i’ve lost four games of chess in a row. i’ve adapted, and today i’ve one two out of three. i know, i’m a breed going extinct, but i embrace the fact that there’s people out there who are better at something, until my brain sucked up everything i need to know to solve the problem, aka winning.

the kind of people who need to feel like winners, who can’t stand losing or being shown that they’re not (yet) smart enough, are a cancer for humanity as a whole.