Can EVE Online be played cooperatively as a community - rather than just as individuals?


(Gronac Cadelanne) #1

At the moment the game seems to be skewed towards either solo players or large corporations. I have been invited to join several corps that engage in exploration and high sec PVE for example. But when the person inviting you is themselves wanted and not welcome in high sec, new players can be forgiven for assuming this is simply another ruse to get you on your own and give grief. I don’t necessarily want to give my API key to Eve University and wait a month to join. There must be other options.

Take the Guardian’s Gala event for example. I was unable to take part because the objective is to kill the other participants - which in high sec is simply going to get me killed by CONCORD and banned from high sec. Once again the game seems to be skewed towards ganking others and getting banned so you cannot trade. I could attack other players in high sec without a Gala Event. How is this event adding value to the game.

Similarly Incursions do not seem to offer anything except an extra bar on the left showing two imaginary teams that might be winning or losing something. There does not appear to be any way to actually join in. The CCP web site suggests you have to follow the instructions of your FC, but if you are not in a large corp you don’t have an FC. Even if you get a couple of mates together and form a fleet yourself, how do you know which other players are on which teams? Is it expected that there will be a free-for-all where everyone just ganks everyone else? How is this different to just hanging around in space and trying to kill everything that moves - you are going to get banned from high sec anyway - being in a system which has an incursion running doesn’t change anything. It is not something you can actually join in with.

What is needed is some way in which new individual players can join in with the community and play together towards agreed objectives, fleet up with others from their own game-racial groups, get to know people, find out who they want to hang out with, and maybe join a corp / alliance that way.

After the initial tutorial there is a big void of isolation. For a community based game there seems to be very little sense of community. It is either a case of solo exploration, solo mining, solo missions, and avoiding getting podded by others who are equally lost and bored with flying round in circles.

Having a Guardian’s Gala event where solo players and / or small groups kill the other participants is setting players up to lose their security status. Getting banned from high sec isn’t adding any value. It is just more of the same - which is I guess why so many people sit in a gate camp in a stilletto with the intention to spoil someone’s day. There isn’t much else to do.

So can CCP be a bit more creative and make some real cooperative gameplay please.


(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #2

I’d say find a new player friendly WH group. Most careers are open for you to try out, and WH play works best when played as a closer community ( though solo is possible as a daytripper too)


(NomdeZeus) #3

I think you have to learn a lot about HS pvp rules.
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Crimewatch
You absolutely can pvp in HS without being concorded (and without using war). Events like guardian gala are perfect for that.
You have to learn about incursion also. It’s pve focussed (in HS at least) and the “2 teams” you see are player Vs the Sansha menace.
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Incursion

Please, find a real corp (active and preferably non-HS) and take you time to learn the game before to ask CCP to change it.

But you’re right, auto-team like in counter strike doesn’t exist in Eve. The closest you can find are public fleet or Factional warfare.
https://spectrefleet.com/
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Factional_Warfare


(Tipa Riot) #4

Unfortunately I see a lot of misconception in your post … may it be that you are referring to lowsec and not highsec? The Gala event was a PvE event primarily, there was never the need to kill other players, but kill NPCs. The highsec variant was very solo friendly. In other free-for-all spaces like low or nullsec, the character is different, because people look for fights and kills all the time.

In case of lowsec PvP, if you initiate a fight against a neutral, you lose security status, but you can always buy and hand-in clone soldier tags to boost your sec status back above -2 to enter highsec without restrictions. I’m living in highsec, earn my ISK there from production and trade, but do also a lot of lowsec PvP, with one char only.

The best cooperative gameplay, and where EvE shines, is PvP. PvE is mostly done solo in EvE with few exceptions.


(Do Little) #5

Eve is a sandbox where players can interact cooperatively or competitively as they choose. CCP provides a few basic rules and a few basic tools - the rest is up to us. Unlike “theme park” style MMOs, the developers do not try to entertain us, they try to create an environment where we can entertain each other. The history of New Eden is created by players, not developers - we are the content.

There are a lot of well respected new player corporations aimed at different play styles. It may take a while to get in but a month is not a long time in the context of a 15 year old game.

Study the corporate ads in game and here on the forums; if you find one that looks interesting, check their in-game info sheet, look them up on https://evewho.com/, if they still look interesting chat with a recruiter.

Better corporations will want a full, account-wide API for a background check - same as a real life employer. If you decide to leave that corp in the future, you simply delete the API key. Meanwhile, that key will be used to grant you access to out of game tools like the corporate forums, intelligence tools, chat, fleet-up, etc… If you’ve made the wrong choice, leave that corp and try again - it might take some effort to find the right fit but it’s worth it.

New players are automatically placed in 2 groups. Rookie chat and your NPC starter corp chat. Most of the people in local while you are running the career missions will also be new players. You can be social, or not, as you see fit. You can create your own corporation at day 1 - the corp management skill only takes a few minutes to train but rookie corps are easy targets for predators - it’s best to join an established corporation and learn the game before branching out on your own. The user manual for Eve exists between the ears of experienced players - it isn’t written down anywhere!


(Gronac Cadelanne) #6

Thank you for taking the time to reply. I have much to read and learn.


(Gronac Cadelanne) #7

NomdeZeus thank you for your reply. I have read all about the different timers in Crimewatch. It does appear to be an illegal act to attack another player in high sec. So I am struggling to understand what you mean. My ignorance obviously but this is such a steep learning curve.

I also read about incursions. This is still confusing as anyone can fight the Sansha but only members of the largest fleet get any benefit from it. I’m still struggling to understand whether individual players are welcome to join one of the fleets taking part in the incursion, and how I would go about doing this.

I read about factional warfare too. It seems eve university does not engage in factional warfare.

Any further advice you could give to help me get started would be very welcome.


(Gronac Cadelanne) #8

Do_Little: Thank you for your advice.


(Gronac Cadelanne) #9

Tipa_Riot: Thank you that was my misunderstanding. Can anyone point me to a guide about the rules of PVP please?


(Memphis Baas) #10

A couple comments:

EVE is a PVP game. Objectively, if you look at the development effort, what CCP has been focused on, it’s mostly PVP. They tune the ships for PVP, they pay attention to the large wars in null sec, and in general their policy towards what’s considered “griefing” is to only restrict RL griefing (harassment, stuff like that) but allow in-game “unfair gameplay.”

EVE is a strategy game, like Starcraft, but we play it from the point of view of a single unit. The point of the game, though, is the same as a strategy game - conquer the map, or at least defeat the enemy / make a name for your group. We do that by banding together into corps and alliances and going to war out in 0.0 for silly “roleplay” reasons, or not even that.

So you have to treat the game like a game. Take chess, the point is to checkmate, and the “lives” of the pawns, rooks, knights, etc. don’t matter. You wouldn’t blink an eye if 4 of your pawns are “PVP’ed” by the opponent, and it’s the same with EVE; PVP isn’t about killing you, it’s about shooting pixel-spaceships, for fun, or to gain an in-game advantage.

So the PVP rules are like this:

  • High-sec has extra rules of engagement, sort of like an e-sport, to make things “fair” when it comes to veterans using the big ships against newbies in the smaller ships. Capital ships are restricted from even entering, and otherwise CONCORD is like a referee, punishing those who break the rules. People can still foul (attack you), they just have to take the penalty for doing so. For unrestricted combat, we have the ability to declare war on the enemy, or as an individual you can challenge others to 1:1 duels, but otherwise you have to follow the rules and timers outlined in Crimewatch.

  • Lowsec has much fewer rules, to promote unrestricted fights. The attackers still lose some security standing and become “pirates”, as a way to limit how much ganking goes on, but it’s only a punishment if you accept it as such; a lot of the pirates are proud of their -10.0 (maxed) notoriety and get upset if it somehow goes to -9.99. In this PVP area, the Faction Warfare sites are a way to do “battlegrounds” because the entrance gates restrict the size of ships to something that’s more balanced and “fair”. So you can “joust” PVP, against more-or-less similar sized ships.

  • Null has no rules and no punishment for attacking, so as a result the alliances have organized themselves and have defense fleets that protect their own space. You join “intel” chat channels that give everyone info about any intruders, and the defense fleet rushes to the area to kill them. Wars are possible, capital ships are allowed, it’s a true RTS map / playground.

PVE:

PVE is designed to give you some money so you can lose some ships and have fun with the PVP. Comparing EVE to SWTOR, WoW, or other modern MMO’s, you’ll quickly notice that the AI is subpar, the quests don’t have any story to them and are random and repetitive, and in general it’s a sub-par experience, and a grind for money. This is because the focus of the game is not PVE.

CCP just gives us ships, and we create our own sandbox with them. It’s up to us to police ourselves, within the game rules (high-sec, low-sec, null), and we do so.

It’s up to you to find out how the community communicates, if you want to belong. The community exists, and has existed for 12+ years, so you just need to find the comms.

As a hint for that, these forums are divided into various sub-forums and we stick to the topic. We also use the very popular Reddit forums (reddit /r/eve), and each corp has its own forums, website, and voice servers that you can join. In-game there’s a corp finding tool, but joining a corp depends a lot on the interview and whether your personality matches theirs. There are plenty of corps, if one doesn’t match just find another, no big deal.

As far as corporation types, High-sec space doesn’t have anything for groups that can’t be done solo, really. Mining, missions, industry, if you join a corp it’s just extra taxes. Only “dangerous space” (low-sec, null, wormhole space) has stuff that you can’t do solo, and also the danger forces people to stick together and develop friendships in a way that high-sec can’t. So your best bet for finding a “good” corp is NOT in high-sec.

Good corps do exist in high-sec but they are very rare; they are much more common in low, null, etc., where everyone can participate in daily “let’s kill the invaders” activities.

As far as incursions, there are free-for-all incursions, but most incursions are done within a few closely-knit groups, and that’s because the ships required are high-end and expensive, and the skill required to fly them isn’t newbie-level. Incursions are the equivalent to boss dragon raids in other MMO’s, they’re end-game content, you need good gear to do them.


(Gronac Cadelanne) #11

Thank you Coorriadhim_Farsaidh: A WH group may be the way to go. I will have to consider carefully as applicants for Eve University are not allowed to have got into any kind of conflict in WH space with any of their alts. So it would have to be an either / or decision.


(NomdeZeus) #12

for the guardian gala it’s a little bit tricky as all the HS pvp. when someone steal the loot form another people he become “suspect”. that’s mean anybody can atack him without consqueces for 15 minutes. but. if you are “suspect” and someone attack you, you can fire back whithout consequences ( I mean, without concord show up).
all the game is to push people to try to steal your loot and become “suspect”. so you can attack him, and your hiden friends too.
that can implie some lie or trash talk “take the loot my friend, I don’t need it anyway”

HS pvp is dirty, WH pvp is baiting and hiding, FW is honorable

check this link for more info about “criminal” or “suspect” statut
https://wiki.eveuniversity.org/Safety_settings


(Corraidhin Farsaidh) #13

I’d suggest try eve uni first for the basics, then look at areas where smaller groups operate (such as but not exclusively lower class WH groups). Then see from there the kind of things you are interested in.


(Gronac Cadelanne) #14

Thank you all for your patient advice.


(Memphis Baas) #15

Yeah, you need to learn how to move the pieces (ships), and then how to win (strategies). You also need to find a group that fits you.

Sometimes it’s best to join some of the larger newbie-oriented groups (EVE University, or some of the large null groups - Pandemic Horde, Karma Fleet, Brave Newbies, etc.) and participate in their organized fleet ops with the free ships they give you, to learn the game, then leave and join smaller or more suitable groups later.

Keep in mind that we help newbies out, but ultimately we’re just looking to play the game, and helping newbies = more players = more fun. So it’s not altruism, it’s just people looking for more players, either wingmates or PVP targets.


(Jenne Wain) #16

“Community” in EVE is a bit of an odd and complex thing, and that it both a blessing and a curse. Some very good advice is given in this thread already, so I won’t rehash any of that.

@Do_Little made a great comment about how much of this is up to us. I’m a bit unusual in how I built up my community, I suppose. I am a member of a corp, but I actually rarely fly with them because we usually are doing our own things. Instead, I am hanging on rookie channels (and others) trying to offer advice, reaching out to people in mining belts to offer boosts, responding to those “Can somebody help me with Dagan?” requests, and generally saying hello to people and extending some basic interactions in local. Of course, I have more fun helping people than shooting them, but that’s just a personal preference.

What I found there is that a lot of the time a “o7” to somebody in local leads to a quick chat the next day, a quick fleet the day after, and the eventual creation of longer-term relationships that begin to form that community. Doing this I went from being on my own most of the time to having a good network of friends that allow us to support each other in all kinds of activities in the game.

I guess my point is that there is no one way to build a community within EVE- much like real life. That’s great in the kinds of dynamics that develop, but definitely a challenge to people who are starting out. One thing that I hear a lot from new players is exactly this concern- how do I find people to play with and expand the social element of the game. So, until that becomes part of the NPE, I do what I can to welcome and help out new players and get them going until they find a path and group that works for them.


(Solonius Rex) #18

There are several things i dont understand regarding your post, and several more misconceptions that you seem to have.

This was never, nor has ever been the objective in ANY of the gaurdians gala events. Where did you get this ludicrous idea from?

Ganking will not cause you to be banned. And i dont understand what you mean by “Cannot trade”.

Incursions are PVE, meaning you are fighting Scripted AI. So there are no teams.

Yes, there is. There are channels and groups, communities if you will, dedicated to running them. You just have to go into an incursion system and you will get a special chatbox that is specific to that incursion. Type inside if there are any fleets up and they will invite you to their own specific chat channel.

Incursions are considered high-end PVE. So you must be in a group in order to run them. And you dont have to be in the same corp. Infact, most people make shelter, one man corps just so they dont have to pay taxes and recieve 100% payouts.

Again, Incursions are PVE, which means that players are fighting against AI controlled Robots, essentially, and not other humans.

EVE is all about community. Its all about cooperation. And its all about PVP too. So you have a constant fight between yourself and your community and those around you who are not in your community.

The fact that you got engaged in hisec and was ganked, is part of the game, and there are things you can do to mitigate that risk. Part of that is to join a community. It doesnt have to be a corp. But the main thing is have fun and shoot things and get shot and make friends. Even though you might be sworn enemies today, you can be best of friends tomorrow. Its all a game, enjoy it!


(Ivory Harcourt) #19

Your first problem here - CCP is not supposed to feed you with your preferred gameplay, YOU are supposed to do that. EVE University exists because players made it, not CCP. Brave Newbies exists because plaeyrs made it , not CCP. Big nullsec powerblocs exist because players made it, not CCP.

There are other smaller groups in wormholes, lowsec, NPC nullsec and partially in sov nullsec, where a group of few players can exist and do their stuff on their own. You just need to look harder.

Also I’m not sure why you keep saying there’s no community; I was able to find / form a community during my times in highsec, in lowsec, in sov nullsec in many areas. And if me, a person of low social skills can form or find a community, everyone should.


(Gronac Cadelanne) #20

Thank you Jenne_Wain. That is very thoughtful o7


(Ivory Harcourt) #21

What the hell are you talking about? Are you sure you actually understand what’s going on with those events?

What the hell are you talking about? Incursions are PVE and they are the group thing, in fact my incursion group is a VERY nice community (hello TVP).

Then how people join in?

Back when we used to live in highsec we had few FCs as a 30man group, of which like 5-6 were online. Is that a large corp?

…What?

Listen… do you actually understand what EVE is about? Like… do you play that game?

Yes, it’s called corporations.

This is a madman’s thread, really.