The Future of Eve, and why hasn't there been anything new in 10 years?

Ten years ago, I quit playing Eve because I got disenfranchised with this game. It came after three years of enjoying what Eve had to offer, in High and Low Sec, a bit of Nullsec warring, and a good community of players. I return 10 years later, expecting to see a familiar, yet different landscape. One that would take me sometime to get used to new mechanics and new ways to play the game, and experience New Eden. I kept my hopes low, as I always do, because really any new way to experience the game would be great, in addition to getting back to the relaxing part of gameplay, as well as the more intense parts. And I gotta say…

Holy ■■■■ I am disappointed beyond all belief. Like, whats new is really cool. The skins are amazing, the new ships are awesome, the customization updates I see are cool as ■■■■. But wheres the real new? The new mechanics, the new way to play? The REALLY new stuff. Where is Dust? Where is the colony sim? Where is the player actually doing stuff in the station that isn’t clicking a button and waiting.

So, to that I am going to address the biggest glaring issue: Where are the players going? Well, one big thing in this newer generation of games that I am seeing that players are screaming for is a separation of PvP and PvE. I know an insane number of players that will not play games simply because they can’t dictate their pvp time from their pve time. That one subject matter, will prevent any game from flourishing. Why though? Because when I get home from work and wanna log on to my favorite game and just do a bit of botting out, and some micropenised groin slapper comes along and decides that’s not acceptable, and ruins that fun for me? I don’t wanna play your game anymore. One of Fallout 76’s WORST features on launch, was their pvp. It was so bad and broken, that in my large friend group at the time, roughly 10-20 player group, 10 quit immediately because they got ■■■■■■ with once and decided that was too many times. I agreed with them, but I like pvp so I kept playing personally.

My biggest issue with pvp, is when I can’t separate it and have zero choice in WHEN that pvp happens. It makes for a bad experience, and a large amount of players want nothing to do with it. So CCP, you’re gonna have to change some gameplay mechanics, but don’t worry I didn’t come empty-handed.

High-Security: All major locations in High-Security(Stations, Belts, Planets, Moons, etc.), should have constant patrols in security status 0.8-1.0, slightly less patrols in 0.5.-0.7, and very few patrols in 0.1-0.4. The only patrols in Nullsec should be in those systems where pirates operate, and should not work the same as High-Security patrols, only attacking those with low standing. If a player locks on to another player, they should then be targeted by the local patrol, with the local patrol asking for reinforcements should it be required. Second, players with negative overall standing should, -10 to -1.0, should not be welcome in Secutity status 0.7+, as in attacked on sight, maybe a scaling system like -10 can’t be in any High-Security, and like, -1.0 can go anywhere but 1.0 systems. If you want the benefits of society, you should have to be a good citizen.

Low-Security: Systems in Low-Security should have nominal patrols that might help you if you’re lucky, or in very high standing with the local authorities, essentially a VIP. This should still be rare, as it is Low-Security, with the patrols scaling down with each system’s Security Status.

Null-Security stays the same besides the small change mentioned above, but that’s more for flavor, because I think seeing a fleet of Gurista’s patroling Gurista space would be a chefs kiss addition.

The above changes, in my opinion with any needed tweaking due to software constraints or whatever, would bring back a missing player base: the casuals. I don’t wanna sweat in High-Security anymore. At all. Call me Carebear, pussy, whatever, I do not care. When I wanna PvP I wanna PvP, when I wanna bot out, get high, and do a ton of mining, I wanna do just that.

New Mechanics: Colony, Station, or whatever Simulation with mild, overtime rewards. A new gameplay model, outside of trying Dust again, but on PC this time I hope, could utilize assets already in game. The Livestock brand of items could be gathered and given to your colony to give different bonuses, or as required by the sim to help your colony. A future idea for this, could connect to the Dust portion by allowing you and your corp to set up one together, that you can then participate in ground missions to defend from other players, and NPC factions. The colony sim gameplay could also be expanded in the future to include real-time strategy elements of “player donated vehicles” from the main games industry setups. EX, I construct a frigate and tank for other gameplay modes, fit them, and then donate them to my personal colony and a frigate and tank unit become available in my colony sim RTS. Some small ideas would be casino’s to gamble ISK, trading card games ranging from simple to more complicated, some kind of big game hunting, fishing on planets, gacha style collector games with a versus mode, pet collection with maybe something like a zoo simulator(customizable, but not fully furnishable or customizable), mini-games to play with, and against other players, etc.

Player Owned, not corp owned everything: I think everything from a wormholes, to stations should be ownable on the individual player level, without needing a holding corp, or anything else. Now, these individual player owned everythings should be at a lesser value to the individual, but should allow for at least a decent amount of solo, or small group gameplay, like catered to it. More and more players want to play with a small group of people. Further, I think small, unraidable Wormholes, that players can “customize” to an extant, would be a second idea to attract more casual and solo oriented players. Players should also be able to have an entire fleet of ships, instead of a continued single ship only system. This system should be used in conjuction with my above mentioned Security status changes, as it should not be part of the pvp experience. I feel it would ruin it, though if carefully implemented, it could also expand pvp. Last two things that go hand-in-hand for this category to me: player owned housing of some kind to walk around in as our character, and to fully customize with stuff we both create, and have to receive through achievements, AIR Career programs, and regular gameplay.

Dust: If one of your ideas involves bring back Dust, I would like to ask for several game variants. I would like a COD style Deathmatch, Team Deathmatch, etc style of Dust. A Battlefield style of Dust with long term objectives, and vehicle involvement, as well as up to Cruiser ship involvement for bombardments. A Battle Royal style Dust game variant. A survival shooter, Dust game variant. And finally, a PvE looter-shooter style of Dust gameplay. And for those like me who like to explore, some beautiful handcrafted maps from your amazing artists, mixed with platforming mechanics, and action oriented FPS combat, on open-world huge maps would be cool as ■■■■.

Ships: I love the new variety of ship styles available, but one thing that made me a bit upset, was that isn’t a High-Security Carrier. I know I know, whatever though. I want a carrier in High-Security. Give me THREE wings of fighters active MAX, and I’ll be beyond happy. More customizable ships like the T3 cruiser. T3 is one of my favorite ideas you’ve ever had, and I am extremely sad it hasn’t been expanded on at all. I DEMAND T3 Frigates, Destroyers, Battlecruisers, and Battleships. Figure it out.

Quality of Life: Some small quality of life changes like in-game windows becoming more transparent the longer you don’t interact with them. Faster ways for players who don’t like using microphones to access the chat channels would be fantastic. PvP targeting, and PvE targeting being separated so when I am doing both, I don’t have to be on adderal to track targets with low skills.

Eve Online, has sliced a small niche of players off the total players in the world, but a long-term MMO like this, requires more gameplay options than currently available. Listed above are some small mechanically changes, and some multi-year projects. I hope you take at least some stuff I have mentioned into consideration for the future.


Well thanks for stopping by with a bunch of ideas that would absolutely destroy everything eve has ever been. As a fortune teller, here’s what’s gonna happen. 3 people are gonna say, amazing, great ideas. You are probably 2 of those 3 people. Everyone else will tell you that those are terrible ideas, and you should go find a different game because you obviously don’t like this one. You’ll reply once or twice, then disappear completely to never be seen or heard rom again, until the next 1st time poster pops up in a month with the same “I hate pvp in a pvp game” rant and then disappears.


Good feedback. Thanks for replying!

EVE Online 5 Year Subscriber Stats Server Population & Player Count - MMO Populations The population of Eve has been cut in half in five years. It’s time to do something different or watch the game go away.

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Nothing new? So Pochven, Invasions, the Abyss aren’t real? Citadels aren’t new? I think you just have stuck to your old ways of playing and didn’t properly explore the game.


Cool, another Why-we-have-PvP?-in-a-PvP-game thread. That promises… :popcorn:
@Orion_Rex Welcome Back!
It’s no use trying to change the game, CCP is already doing it and I wish them well with it.

That doesn’t seem to bother many players and to tell you the truth it doesn’t bother me either. New Eden isn’t so big for millions of players. I think the current number of players could use a boost but 30k players evey day is decent for an unforgiving game like EVE.

I doubt the game will go away any time soon, even if CCP stops updating it and cuts its employees by half.


Is that a different way to play the game, or the exact same gameplay a different way?

Have you paid attention to the graph? it’s not on the up. The player base is declining. Every player post is a returning player, who are probably coming back like, “Hey anything changed up the game? Nope, exact same game, okay bye!”

Literally lost 250k daily players. That’s half the population of the game, and it’s on a downward trend. It’s gonna peak with old players checking for some new ways to play the game, and then will fall off again. I’m afraid I’m part of an upward spike that will have a steep falloff soon.

More players means more servers, more servers means bigger map, bigger map means more places for you to get lost doing what you wanna do. More isn’t bad. More gets more of everything.

This is your dumbest take, all I did with my changes was create a safe place for new players to learn the game, and then places for more experienced players to further expand into. I want pvp, just not 20 300k isk rifters with a potato gun farting on my mining fleet in 1.0 and getting away away with it every 35 seconds. Noting my exagerations, since you like them too. Anyway, my idea of secuerity status isn’t the only thing covered in the post. So if you could expand beyond that, that’d be great.

I have checked and continue to check player numbers for EVE every week from two or three different websites. The numbers seem to have stagnated for the past few years after the dramatic fall where log-in numbers fell from + - 60k to + - 30k.

That could very well be. Meanwhile, CCP is upgrading and changing some of EVE in a process that’s likely going to take years.
Only they know how many new players signed up every quarter. Anything beyond that is speculation.

I don’t think daily players went above 65k as I remember Brisc Rubal mentioned.
250k is the total ever from accounts and I think it’s more like 300k. Those numbers may count inactive accounts.

With 25k to 30k daily log-ins I have no wish for more space. I don’t see those numbers dramatically increasing as long as EVE is under construction with so many issues to fix.

I prefer quality over quantity.


We’re currently on the last, or maybe second to last spike of players before a major dip in player numbers again. Look at the downward trend first that starts IN THE PANDEMIC, players didn’t pick Eve back up, until late Pandemic, and then again, it wasn’t very many in comparison with past numbers. I alone counts for FOUR current active subscriptions, and that’s me alone. So I won’t look at small numbers, but number trends instead, and Eves are pointing down.

Eve has always released numbers that reflect the number of active connections, rather than the number of active accounts as their primary numbers because a single player can have multiple, with the highest number I remember was one person having over 20, I believe 30. Also, all gaming companies release their numbers to media sources, and if they wanted to be dishonest, they wouldn’t show a 50% net loss in active players over 5 years.

Daily players meant uniqe logins. I.e. People logging in from different locations. Whether thats due to vpns, or the like, or actual uniqe players cannot be known.

Okay, my post is about getting a bigger playerbase, and not stagnating it.

Same, I never said the opposite, more of everything, means more quality too, as more players means they can pay more employees to do the work they need to do to make whats here already better, while also being able to expand the game and look into the future, which is how you get better quality: Freeing up people’s time to focus on quality.

Griefing in EVE is getting absolutely out of control, and CCP needs to do something about it soon, before the rest of the players have had enough and leave the game. Then the server will be shut down and there will be no more EVE. Ganksters are stupid because they don’t realize that by griefing poor new players in high-sec, they are just shooting themselves in the foot because soon they will have no more game to play, and they won’t be able to grief anyone anymore because all the other games have realized this problem and made rules against it (as they should).

The only solution is to add a PvP flag toggle to EVE Online so that players can choose when they can be attacked. It’s a fair solution, and one that players want and we all need.


Here’s how these posts go:

  • OP: I am new/returning and gosh this 20-year-old game would be better without PvP (or similar)
  • Everyone: What, it’s a new month already? No, it wouldn’t
  • OP: Think of the PCU count! / Think of the newbies! / Think of the money!
  • Everyone: You know, Abyssals are purely PvE content and effectively immune to PvP, yet there was none of that when it was introduced. No massive uptick in subs. I guess PvE isn’t that appealing after all and other games do it better. Perhaps Eve should stick to its strengths.
  • OP: Think of the retention! / Think of the mass appeal!
  • Everyone: Eve hasn’t been a mass-appeal game, and it’s been primarily driven by players.
  • OP: CCP Games needs to drive everything not players! New Features!
  • Everyone: By CCP’s own metrics, they admit the best retention mechanism is the first time a new player suffers a major loss while amongst corpmates / fleet mates. They haven’t found anything they can do to replicate that hook.
  • OP: People who would really stick with the game don’t want PvP!
  • Everyone: But CCP’s own best-of retention metrics above require PvP, and the player count decrease correlated with removing PvP (Piracy) from the game.
  • OP: Disappears
  • Everyone: I guess people who really stick with the game do want PvP

1 month later

  • OP’s doppleganger: I am new/returning and gosh this 20-year-old game would be better without PvP (or similar). People who would really stick with the game don’t want PvP!

EDIT: Oh, also add a pinch of “Eve is dying!” to taste.


Hello and welcome back.

You’ll soon find that in the 10 years you’ve been gone, threads much like this one have come and gone on a regular basis every month or two.

EVE definitely needs work, but your notions boil down to “make EVE like most other games”. Which definitely won’t work because CCP has never been very good at implementing the things done in other games. EVE only ‘works’ to the extent it does because its’ features give it an unusual balance of risk and activities, and making the risk ‘optional’ will turn it into a bland shadow of itself.

EVE is 20 years old now - every game that old is losing players. Could it lose less, and retain a bit more? Sure. Just not by trying to ape what all the other games are doing.

It’s not terribly helpful to just pop back into a game and do a snap analysis that ends up saying “Hey I want this game to be easy and comfortable and more like the other games I play”. Especially since you basically missed everything that actually is new and jumped on ideas that have been around for ages.

Spend some time, re-acquaint yourself with what makes EVE actually somewhat unique, and try to figure out ways to make what EVE is, more appealing.

As opposed to trying to castrate it.


Based on previous records it’s entirely possible that a dip will happen again. I predict many dips and spikes in the next few years. I have a feeling it will be like that until most technical issues are solved, until CCP is done revamping the game and creating new bugs and until new content is introduced that most every players can interact with without mortgaging the house, Alpha & Omega.

That’s probably smart concerning numbers issued from corporations themselves.

From what I see in tue graphs is stagnation. There are as many downs than ups for the last few years and I don’t see that changing for a while.

Every other posts is about getting more players or about new players… How many of those posts in so many years has there been?
Ultimately, it’s CCP’s responsibility to come up with ways to attract new players and we don’t know if they’re doing a good job at it or not.
All I can say on that is that the NPE is good but needs to be extended to comprise the Career Agents within the storyline that they’re going with.

Also, more players means more overall purchasesm

A 20 year old game on a downward trend of players. I never said remove pvp. Re-read my post. Neandrethal.

Because it doesn’t change the fundamental flaws of the game, that being gankers. No one is calling for an end to pvp, including this post. And you’re not going to see a massive uptick in subs. If it’s one small little slice of pve, while the overall new player experience is gank rifter’s for 6 months, the game is going to continue to go down.

I’m not asking for mass appeal, no one is, we are asking for more appeal than a 20 year old apple with a couple drops of caramel on it.

Yeah, that’s a terrible hook and not the answer you think it is.

And every one that is ignored, isn’t just one player leaving, it’s multiple players leaving. And every post of these that’s ignored, results in even more huh? Sounds like what people want is what they keep posting about… Weird.

All the curvatures go in threes W’s. It’s hard to explain but once you understand the pattern it’s currently in, you see that the spike we are in is right before a steep drop. What content comes after this drop determines the next spikes and whether it will begin and upward trend, or continue it’s downward trend.

That is essentially removing PvP. Because guess what? 10 years ago there was a split PvP and PvE server just like today. Tranquility, and Singularity! You already have what you want. But you’re not satisfied, so you’re writing Dickens level novels of forum posts. You’re really not fooling anyone.


Eve is a truly unique game.

I can think of no other that has a revolving door of people coming and going. During their brief flash-pan stay, they shout to a community they are not a part of nor are familiar with (or are estranged with) about how everybody in the community is wrong and that the solution is that Their Ideas are The Chosen Ideas that will bring the game salvation, riches, fame, and glory.

And then get upset when they aren’t treated like a royal prophet and thanked for their protagonist plot-moving insight. And go straight for the insults.


Where did the subscriber numbers used in that link and graph come from, because as far as I know CCP haven’t released subscriber numbers for a long time.

Furthermore the data they claim to be charting appears to have little or no relationship with the data table presented as the source for the graph.


Thank you.

Sounds like a trend of gamers tell you guys to expand instead of doubling down, followed by increased spikes of player losses, maybe try a different tactic?

I am going to assume you didn’t read anything I wrote. And I am going to give you the catering to exclusivity is a bad marketing trend. The more people buying your product, the more money you make. CCP is a business, and you’re right, they’ve catered to ganking by allowing it stay for 20 years, and the game has been on a 20 year decline. Games such as No Man’s Sky, which make constant improval, are constantly going up, instead of down. And if a game is artificlally exciting, doesn’t that mean it’s boring and needs some fundamental changes to bring FUN back to GAMING. Seems like a weird stance to take, but okay.

And look at every game that loses players, what do they do? They polish the turd instead of finding a better turd, or maybe even a rock or gemstone even! Wouldn’t that be great, to not play a polished turd, I get that it’s your polished turd, but I put in a solid three years of slow growing a character, a corp, I played Eve the novelty way, and the downward trends show you, without a doubt, that the game is “dying”. Sure the diehards are closing ranks, but eventually you’ll want to do something else. It happens. That or CCP won’t be able to live off you guys anymore and they’ll be forced to shrink the game repeatedly.

I never said easy or comfortable. I said “easier” at best. In fact, if you read any of my secruity changes AT ALL, you would see that it just makes suicide ganking harder, and forces more pvp into the lower security number, so that new players can figure ■■■■ out, and then expand into more and more aggressive territory under progressively higher risk-higher reward tiers. This gives room for player error in building their skill points, and significantly more, and allows for more players to find their niche in the game. And I am gonna be honest, if the exagerations are anywhere near to be believed about the individual number of players saying essentially the exact same, it begs to wonder where the real majority lies?

This is a bad take, sorry, not sorry, it’s just bad.

Also take the time to read the rest of my post, because I included multiple types of small updates that wouldn’t take much, but would make overall make the game feel better and more responsive. The overall post isn’t about security status, I just went deepest into that because I saw the battlefield that it is between the closing walls of the elder players not wanting anything to happen to their precious.

That’s CCP’s problem to think about. I’m just a lowly player just trying to understand what sort of machine is EVE and whether or not it’s in my interests to buck it by the year or by the week.

What’s wierder is you mention ignoring while I and several other members are replying to you.
It may not be what you’d like to read but you are not ignored. None of the “no-PvP-Safe-Space-Bah-Ganking-Humbug” threads are ignored in this forum, that’s why I pulled out my :popcorn: at the start.
As you can see, I foresee quite a bit. That should help me PvP some until I understand what that button does.


Oh another one. Yamyamyam :popcorn:

@Orion_Rex topics like yours come up very frequently and they all are based on one big misunderstanding: PvP is not a “problem”, it is pretty hard to enforce it on someone who really does not want to have it. For every guy who is killed against his will there are a THOUSAND guys who are not killed because they made one or two clever decisions. If you get killed in EVE it is your own fault almost every time.