I am very happy to see people are seeing the same problems as me. Keep up the debate!
And thanks for chiming in!
Possibly people would black ops more, which canāt be a bad thing.
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Every time this comes up I worry CCP will nerf capitals. Caps are in a good place right now, as far as Iām concerned after the upcoming FAX changes they need no changes.
The problem is Capital proliferation. They drastically reduced build cost of dreads a couple of years ago and IMO that was a big mistake. Plus, with the addition of rorqs, caps are now cheaper than ever.
I can make a phoenix hull for 900mil, and they get T1 insurance - so when it dies I get almost all of that back. After insurance, itās almost as cheap for me to drop a HAW phoenix as it is for me to bring a faction battleship.
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Could just making cyno-inhibs deploy faster so you canāt just cyno on top of a fight work? You would have to cyno elsewhere in system and then warp to the fight, which would increase the response time significantly for cap drops and a bit less for black ops who presumable align and warp faster.
Funny you mention thatā¦ I had actually also had a whole paragraph about pricing and that they are too cheap and easy to get. And yes. Proliferation is a huge issue as well
Just FYI, there is a bunch of us that have left NS too, myself included for these reasons. Unfortunately at this point I do believe it is CCPs goal to make TQ same as Serenity, except HS cause no caps there, but no PvP roaming or much else in these regards either.
In addition, the NS bot explosion and high cap proliferation rate are directly related and directly feed of off each other.
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I do believe the trouble is more to do with cynoās than with caps. But bait with cynoās are sometimes the best option for getting a fight because local exposes you too easily too soon.
If you want to nerf cynos, I think changing local would be a good mechanic to look at as well at the same time (and cloaks. Hi Mike!)
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I generally agree Iāve played this game almost solidly for years. I used to enjoy FCāing now I have no desire to do it at all. Last night for example we went after some targets in low sec. In 5 cruisers a couple of logi. They had alot more battleships it was potentially a decent brawl. Next thing we know cyno goes up Nyx, Apostle and Pheonix show up with screams of pussy in local and having a nyx attempting to chase you through gates is a rediculous situation and was not as the game was intended to be.
The fact that the your are then called a āpussyā because your not willing to suicide yourself or ābadā cos you donāt have a fleet of supers on standby to escalate leaves the whole thing untenable. Nullsec has now become a big blue donnut and because people are bored people are leaving to come to lowsec where there is ācontentā problem is that where low sec was designed to get people ready for null. Null is now farming lowsec now no-one will engage anything due to the fact they are sick of getting hot dropped. The area in which we live a group that if you drop dreads will drop supers if you drop supers will drop Titans. They are safe to pad there killboard completely risk free.
The finding well get in a bigger group doesnāt apply because 10 dreads take 10 minuites to kill a super without logi and if they have an apostle your screwed anyway people have now decided that PVP is ganking. They dont want to fight they want to gank, and then get upset when people run away from them because they know as soon as there any chance of winning a cyno goes up and the otherside press the insta win button.
The problem as a whole right now is that you have all of the newbie corps Brave, Horde, and others are sucking the new player base straight into null. So the smaller corps in high / low canāt get any bigger. What then happens is the null sec guys drop supers and capitals risk free in low sec and kill any content anyone is trying to make. This problem is serious and it is something that CCP needs to take seriously. The number of capitals in the game was made worse with the dropping of the requirements from battleship 5 to 4 was the start. Since the jump changes helped alot so more capitals could be fielded now the whole thing has become rediculous.
I agree with potentially having a mass limit on cynoās one cyno per ship in low that forces tactical decision to be made. People are saying nerf local no because if you do that then it doesnāt help in any way it helps the gankers rather than the ganked. Life isnāt fair life isnāt an equal playing field but by the same token capitals in low are to small gang pvp like using high explosives on a hangnail.
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Maybe add new module to Heavy Interdictors? Mobile Cyno Jammer? Just 100 km radius no cyno zone until you kill HD?
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Iām not a fan of aoe in ls, to me one of the things that make caps an issue in ls is they are balanced around all of the capabilities of null. Brining those or similar to ls is not the answer.
The real root failure was they started down a ābigger ship bigger end gameā mentality years back. There should have been new space to go with those classes of ships, the outer rim or whatever.
Those ships should be needed to move outward but since there is no outward they are moving inward and nothing can balance that.
The OP already stated some small gang groups just donāt have the resources to counter-drop
Steps to not get hotdropped in lowsec
- Goto Houla, Amakake, Tama, Kedama, etc
- Slide inside FW complex of your choosing.
- Talk mad smack to the locals.
- Someone will come fight you.
You canāt get hotdropped inside the complex and ship size is limited by complex so harder to get blobbed.
Ps my experience is opposite, been hot dropped much more in null than lowsec.
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i had this idea that deals with the escalation-play that is out of whack. Read the part about the aoe-cyno-block-bubble that battleships should be able to use. They should be able to defend themselves against or resist and counterplay a drop. For the dropper, its not riskless to drop a carrier because of other entities out there. But the rush when we hold targets long enough to get cyno in place in spring the trap is so delicous. i want more and longer play leading up to the moment of the drop.
A drop should not be instantaneous, but the possibility is exciting and should not be removed!
Read here: [escalation] aoe entosis and asymmetric gates
(Warning: It involves space-wands and āmagicā that many people have prejudice against. only fozzie knows what bitten them.)
Glad to see I am not the only one to say this. If only someone would have seen this coming a few years ago - oh waitā¦
i need to keep that stowed somewhereā¦ might come in handy next time we have a ganking debate, though i can tell you were ranting so idk if itās good enough fodderā¦
Cynos would be a self-limiting concern if they didnāt work backwards. A cyno is naturally for bait.
If you move a carrier into an area, you should be able to light a cyno and summon subcaps in your fleet to your zone up to a certain total mass limit. It could be as simple as a right clicking a fleet broadcast option. The same should be true for a freighter. No-one needs to train a titan for bridging duties.
Supers should be able to cyno in every sort of non-super up to a mass limit. Manned citadels should be able to cyno in most sorts of non-citadels up to a variable mass limit.
The obvious context for such a change is that it facilitates both pve and pvp skirmishes instead of dedicated idle escorts. It has knock-on effects such as making intel channels largely irrelevant except for tracking capital assets, which themselves become essential force-projection and rapid-response assets. The effect of fatigue might encourage assailants to split their forces.
Iāve been thinking about this subject, as ive been playing the game agianā¦ and thoug i wish with every fiber of my bones, CCP will do something til limit acces and use of Caps, espc. in low secā¦ The more i think about it, the less i belive its gonna happenā¦
Capital proliferation, is just good buisness for CCPā¦
ā¦SP injectors
ā¦PLEX
ā¦More PLEX
ā¦More SP injector salesā¦
BUT!.. i think its short term good buisnessā¦
all the players who arnt looking for the Cap grind, or wanna pvp in a hunk of metal the size of a small state, will have less content availableā¦ wanna use or have used on them theā¦āBANG-CAP-DROPā tac thats is plainly overtaking eve pvpā¦hot dropā¦vs hot dropā¦vs hot dropā¦
in long term, eve is missing out on alot of playersā¦(This is speculative, how ever i think its a resanoble specultationā¦
players unwilling to go for cap grind, skill injector catch up race, will feel left behind.)
Fyiā¦ i am a capital pilote and own capital ships.
- Capitals are to Easy to come byā¦ proliferationā¦
- Capitals are a slight loss for an old player and resanoble replaceableā¦proliferation
- The easy of use and low risk means caps are the better choice for pvp atm.
H.HICās, Command ships, t3 cruisers with good fittings easy comes to the price tag
of close to a carrier hullā¦ same goes for Bsās and Marudersā¦
So a fittet carrier,ā¦ cost whatā¦4-5 std tech 2 cruisers with fittings?.
playing in a fleet, your alot less liketo to die in the carrierā¦playing hot drop on your terms.
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ā ā ā ā was beautiful when they first rolled out jump fatigue. hell you even had local LS groups able to get into small scale capital engagements with each other. jump fatigue was doing exactly what ccp wanted it to but null bears bitched and moaned and now we have an annoying system that doesnāt actually help anything and only causes everyone inconvenience
You are rightā¦ I am one of those stubborn pilots that refuse to fly caps.
Iāve met several people that feels the same, and seen plenty leave the game.
I know even more that are fatigued outside FW space that just want random roaming engagements.
They might leave the game soon.
But in general i am very pleased to see all these responses. Even happier to see so many that agree that this is a problem. I know Iāve been ranting a bit, but I find it to be fatiguing being a stubborn sub-cap pilot not interested in Null-sec, being in a situation where i find it really hard to find the differences between null and low other than technicalities.
There are a lot of work in balancing the capitals. There is just as much work in balancing sub-capitals.
It seems to me the heavy over representation of Null sec in the CSM is affecting the game badly.
This October update as an example:
Interceptor fleets are all of a sudden the biggest balancing issue in the game. Ohā¦ Okā¦
For Null-sec it might be. But i havenāt seen any group in low fielding enough pilots to make good interceptor gangs, or huge blobs of frigates for that matter. The interceptor balancing is most likely relevant to Null, justified and a good changeā¦ But I feel Low sec PVP has become a non-issue for CSM and CCP.
Changes to Null-sec balance also affects the rest of the game, and it seems the CSM doesnāt careā¦ Either because there is too little representation of Low-sec or that it the 6/10 Null-seccers in the CSM overrule what little representation the rest of the game has. I do no know how CSM handles this, and I do not wish to cast blame. All of this is pure speculation, so respect to the CSM and what they doā¦
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Theres been plenty posts like this one the last year. (Yes was looking back in the forums threads subjects.)
Reading some of the former posts, that were extremly well written. (better than any of mine about it.)
Was a bit dishartening. If these arguments, very well defended and spoken ideas, suggestions and
complaints, hanst reached the ear of CCP, then i belive there is little hope. Havent seen any posts
from a CCP official that aknowlegde there even is an issue here at all.
havent read any CSM post either that agree on there being an issue with low, and the general
game Cap Proliferatione.
so its a ādeff earsā feeling im left with.
Right now, living in Hisec, cuz its the only place left in the game that remininds me some what
of the EVE-i-once-knew. war decs makes for resonable fights, as its sub-capā¦ exploration gives
resonable excitement and the production/mining is hard compared to null or low, but doable.
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