Catalyst Mining Issues...Mercoxcit and Mining Efficiency over the years with mining lasers. 4 Unbonused ships

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

So we are having a little problem with Catalyst because CCP adjusted alot of the mining equipment to create perceived function of better responsiveness. (IE time per cycle)

But I think there was some interesting problems now incorporated into the majority of the mining game.

Also the data reveals some interesting differences from 2020 to 2026.

The main goal of the tests was maximum yield…with the most stable metrics being
180secs PERIOD. IE in 2020 Modulated Deep Core Miners were 180sec. (unboosted)
***With other mining lasers being at 60 seconds. (so 3 cycles of 60 = 1 180 sec cycle.) ***
Civilians being 10sec…so 6 cycles of 10sec x 3 sets of 6 = 180 sec cycle)

There is also another oddity I want to discuss in this data.
CCP has also quietly buffed some modules. ORE Deep Core went from 40m3 in 2020 to 80m3 in 2021-2025.

The data point 2025 is chosen because that is Legion…and we have a fairly stable data set from the changes of 2021/2022 [mining changes] so we have about 3 years of stable data.

I chose 2020, because that is the time frame I joined EVE so my point of reference. Feel Free to map out from earlier points to see any inconsistencies I may have missed. (Any earlier points might also show ships that have been removed from their roles IE mining cruisers/frigates of the empires.)

Another point to be made anything with Red Coloring. means it can not pick up Mercoxcit as it was designed to. This applies to T1 Deep Core Mining Lasers in 2026. They are sub 40m3 requirement for Mercoxcit to be picked up as a single block.

This data also was streamlined by removing both residue and bonus yields. We just want the core highest yields possible m3 per 180sec cycle. (including mutated maximum mining yield per cycle for 2026)
If these were added…especially with mutaplasmid data on residue and bonus yields. You would have to add range cones to any graph for minimum and maximums, because of RNG. However, if one wishes to take this data further this must be pointed out. That any future graphs on data points are going to have to have range cones. off the main maximums of any data sheet.

Also another note. T2 Modulated Deep Core Miners were yield (m3) per cycle in 2020. Before the changes to mining lasers to the new “Combined Classification” crystals were added.

So 2025 and 2026 are using the later crystals for T2 Modulated Deep Core Miners. These are A(II) crystals. Yes the B(II) can give more speed and therefor adjust the data lines. But its not convenient for data testings because the 2020 data is fixed at 180sec baseline. So A(II) was selected for maximum yield and data consistency.

Yes, there are alot of other moving parts…like faster cycles due to mutation and fleet boosts and system effects. As well as range which also affects engagement time.

These have been excluded to simplify the data to the 180sec cycle constraints. It is assumed all rocks are within range and are being interacted with, and the rocks have the m3 and units within to satisfy the cycle m3. One could potentially create graphs upon how fast each rock size m3 and units can be “defeated” and depleted within set time frames. And that is a whole different graph monster.

I have Selected 4 ships to show some of the incongruencies for simplicity sake.

• Gnosis → which can be fitted up to 5,000m3 cargo hold, if used in non-PVE/PVP roles. (Fleet Booster is not fitted. And the Deep Core T1 and ORE Deep Core are fitted to the hulls fitting limitations. The T2 modulated and other mining lasers are x5.)
  

  

• Praxis → which can be fitted up to 10,000m3 cargo hold, if used in non-PVE/PVP roles. (Yes I can downgrade the cargo bay and get higher yields for some mining lasers…but I was going for maximum fitting with the Deep Core T1 and ORE Deep Core Mining lasers…which have excessive fitting 150tf CPU…and any attempts to min/max their yield = hefty CPU penalties. And also the 10,000m3 puts it between the Mining Destroyers and Barge/Exhumers in some situations collection wise.)
  

  

• Miasmos → comes with an innate [currently] 63,000m3 “mining hold”. And enough low slots to Mining upgrade a singe mining laser. Not generally used in this role…but it had to be tested. Also ironically it might be one of the oddballs to be able to access nullsec Mercoxcit relatively safely, because it has nullification. And enough cargo space to be able to swap between travel and mining roles/modes.
  

  

• Mammoth → fitted to around 10,000m3-14,000m3. Like the Miasmos above…technically it could go after Mercoxcit in Nullsec since it has access to Nullificatiion. But once on grid with the Mercoxcit you are committed generally via fitting constraints even if you swap between roles. IE probably not too bad getting out there to the Mercoxcit…but tricky getting back.
  

  

Now if you note the Red Blocks. The T1 Deep Core Mining Laser can not even with Abyssal Mutation pick up any Mercoxcit. That being said…the ORE Deep Core Mining Laser…if not mutated or buffed by mining upgrades which are insane on penalty for that particular module…its painful…can not pick up Mercoxcit either. If its sub-40m3 its not going to pick up Mercoxcit.

I wanted to share the interesting little data points on these four unbonused ships.

Potentially there is more variants of this issue across the hulls that historically have been used either in desperation or “meme mining.” But I think that will need some review in the long term. Especially the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser and the ORE Deep Core Mining Laser.

[Gerard_Amatin]

What exactly is the point you’re trying to make here?

Between two haulers and two combat ships none of these are mining ships and also none of them are ships I would recommend anyone to use to mine mercoxit as there are many other (dedicated miner) ships that are far better at this role.

So I don’t really understand why their mercoxit yield is relevant.

Honestly your posts read a bit like an info dump with no start or end, no structure or overarching message. Or maybe I just missed it between the details.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

Catalyst Update has brought some interesting problems to light with mining gameplay.

One of the more troubling issues is the fact that when CCP decided to “Quarter” all mining lasers to 1/4 of their normal operating times. They also quarted their yields.
IE ORE Deep Core Mining Laser is 60 sec (Pre-Catalyst) → 15sec (Post-Catalyst)
It yield was by 2025 - 80m3 (Pre-Catalyst) → 20m3 (Post Catalyst)

Now the problem is Deep Core Mining Lasers need to be 40m3 minimum to interact with Mercoxcit. If it is below this threshhold you can not pick this ore up.

However, we do have some ships that are bonused to pick them up. IE. Mining Frigates/Expeditions. (And Technically the Mining Destroyers…however the other elephant in the room rears its head with these modules. T1 Deep Core Mining Lasers and ORE Deep Core Mining Lasers have a fitting requirement per mining laser of 150Tf.)

So you can see the really painful issues with T1 Deep Core and ORE Deep Core just on the fitting front. So this test…is going to assume we are using a Genolution Pod + Michi + MX + Aoede in the low slot. Just for fairness of yields. Its the only way to standardize the data

Now the purpose of this data is to compare between 2020-2025-2026. And show some of the problems currently in game with a bonused ship.

2020 Data Point is when I came into the game…and also the T2 Modulated Deep Core Miner was using Specialty ORE Crystals (Mercoxcit II in this case) and were done by yield.

So the benchmark is 180sec period. So T1 Deep Core and ORE Deep Core are 60sec per cycle. Circa 2020-2025. So 60sec x 3 cycle = 180sec. So you can compare them yield wise.

Then in 2026 due to CCP changing 60sec cycles to 15sec cycles. You have to go 15 x4 = (60sec x 3) (60 sec cycles) = 180sec.
With T2 Modulated Deep Core Mining laser being 4x 45sec = 180sec. Fairly simple and straight forward.

** Also a special note: in around 2021/2022 CCP buffed the Ore Deep Core from 40m3 → 80m3. So when 2026 came around…its the only ORE Deep Core Mining Laser that can pick up Mercoxcit on a Venture! Using the 100% hull bonus for mining lasers…to go from 20m3 to 40m3. So you can pick up 1 Mercoxcit Block (which is 40m3)

Left is baseline stats of the ORE Deep Core (Post-Catalyst) Right is the ORE Deep Core just put into a hull. (Combination of 100% hull bonus + Hull skill bonus + mining skills (Astrogeology))…still stuck at 1 block. (Even with ~78m3)

Okay first things to set the stage.
Basic data. Everyone should be able to look at and say…okay we get this.
Single Mining Laser

Paired Mining Laser (Two on Venture)

Special Note here…from this point on…any Red Boxed number means its base module can not pick up Mercoxcit…below the 40m3 requirement. This is applies to T1 Deep Core Mining Laser.

ah but here is where some little issues in comparison start to show up.
Ventures at 60sec.
Single Laser

Paired Laser (2x)

Ventures at 120sec.
Single Laser

Paired Laser (2x)

Ventures at 180sec
Single Laser

Paired Laser (2x)

Its actually interesting to see both the buff to the ORE Deep Core Miner…and the loss of m3 from 2020 to 2025 via the change over to “unified crystals” in the data. I would also point out…that a baseline unmutated T2 Modulated can get a total of 1024m3…but I was going maximum comparisons mutations only to maximum yield. No bonus yields or residue data has been factored in as well.

Now if we consider some materials involved how many Mercoxcit Blocks were being collect per cycle times over the years?

Now note I put 0 for the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser in 2026…thats for the baseline, you have to mutate to get 1 block. So its not a good metric.
This is just cycle collected blocks. As you can see we are losing yields a bit between 2020 and 2025.

Now if we were to compare between 2020 through 2026 at a full 180sec cycle system. So all are properly compared. You will notice that the ORE Deep Core Mining Laser begins to become much more interesting. Now you can correlate this data a bit further yield.

Although I should be frank on this line of thinking. CCP does need to adjust the CPU of the Deep Core Mining Miners…both T1 and ORE to around 95Tf. Because you shouldn’t have to mutate to get a better fit.

Lowest you can potentially achieve is a 120Tf (God Rolled) CPU cost. But you can easily penalty back into unfittable again.

And the issue of not being able to pick up Mercoxcit is further compounded by Catalyst changes to yields + unbonused hulls. So getting at Mercoxcit is not more problematic and frustrating…even without fitting frustrations involved.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

I would take this consideration in thought.

Each year shows the maximum yield of these mining lasers. The most important would be the T1 Deep Core/ ORE Deep Core/ T2 Modulated.

One of the problem with comparative information. Is that CCP has also changed the mechanics around 3 times. inside 2020-2026.

Hence why I put the rule of 180sec. Because 2020 Modulated Miners were yield focused.

So T2 Modulated Mining Laser had higher yields…especially in Mercoxcit.

CCP also buffed ORE Deep Core Miner from 40m3 → 80m3 in 2021/2022 Mining Changes. Yet you don’t see it used often due to fitting issues. (CPU)

Then Catalyst quartered the mining yields and cycles. (Proportionally as they have put it) But from my experience in testing its not really holding up.

Between 2020-2025 you could get at different resources with various options…even Mercoxcit. It became a cost/benefit analysis.

We also lost yield from 2020 to 2025…because CCP changed the mining crystals. (Ironically they were testing an in between system…where specialty crystals were focused on specific ores…but at lower yields than the unified crystals which would have been interesting.)

You can easily compare even a Venture in this situation.
Red Blocks are notes that you can’t pick up Mercoxcit. (Note the Venture has this block as well.) IE the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser is not working in 2026…due to the proportional 1/4 cycle/yield changes. 40m3 (2020-2025 Pre-Catalyst) → 10m3 (2026 Post-Catalyst)

I know everyone looks at m3/s and other data. But I am trying to point out how yields have changed. Good and Bad. (IE Mercoxcit accessibility has dropped) Which will have consequences down the road.

Also if you then take this data and then look at various ships in game…over data from 2020-2026 and you will some problems. Especially with Mercoxcit. But other items. Some of the new ships added also have issues with this material.

Outrider doesn’t have a hull bonus…it can’t mine Mercoxcit even though it was sold as a mining boost ship. Its yields with Deep Core I is sub -40m3. (29m3 to be exact without abyssal and max skilled) With ORE Deep Core its about 59m3 so you can pull 1 block per laser cycle…that 3 versus a Ventures 6.

Pioneer has a hull bonus but its 50%…So again even with me using some insane pod. And god rolled abyssal kit. Breaking barely 3 blocks per laser. (9 total)
And these are bonused ships and its not working well baseline.

I am showing some issues both with stats in game, and how people perceive information and test it. If added the bonus yields and residues we would need range cones…additional high/low marks off the mainline.

I feel there is some discussion to be had over the Catalyst changes.

30 secs and 1/2 yield..makes more sense to me…but cutting everything by quarters doesn’t.

And the smaller the numbers are the hull bonus+skill multipliers becomes smaller and less effective. Its easer to 5% 100. (5) than 10 (.5) [Since we have rounding now.]

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

I found something out…that has me raising eyebrows.

T1 Deep Core Mining Laser Max Skills is 39.06 m3 (On a Venture)

there are two interesting points to make here. Either CCP is massively rounding it up…or has hardcoded it to 1 per cycle. Minimum. But that would make the T1 mining laser…more like the ORE Deep Core in 2025. (80m3 + hull bonus minimum = 160 units.) = 4 units per 60sec. 12 units per 180sec. (24 units for two mining lasers) but this not maxed out…so the data is off again.

And I noticed that depending cycle position you get mercoxcit…if you cancel the cycle.

4 x less than 1/4 a cycle. Seems like 1/2 a cycle is counted as well.

bonus yield 1 block = 2 bonus yield. (had that happen as well during this test.)

Out of curiousity to this mechanic…I decided to apply a Reaper corvette as a test ship.
Reaper can fit a Deep Core Miner…just 1. And its also an unbonused ship…so its categorically lower in all respects.

Ironically it applies your concept of 1-4cycles with unbonused ships and sub 20m3 (although it
seems its more than that I think 6-8) Although in the first pass I got 1 block of mercoxcit. Second was like 6 passes…then 3rd was like 3-4 cycles. So it would need to be exhaustively tested under lets say…1-2 hours to see how this system works. I despise that the log system is not really conducive this recording of data that I need.

So even though though the stats are minimized and cycle times…in the case of unbonused ships it seems spot on claims both for “equal” cycle times, and the concept of portional cycle time. (as you have discussed) 15sec cycles…so running a T1 deep core mining laser = Pre-Catalyst 40m3 T1 deep core.

For bonused ships…it seems over-torqued. Its doing more than its original stats. 4 cycles do not match the original T1 Deep Core Ore mining laser (Pre-Catalyst) on a Venture. Instead of 40m3 bonused to 80m3…(1 → 2 blocks minimum by hull bonused) its acting like the ORE Deep Core Miner because the cycles are at a fixed 1 block per cycle. And 4 cycles (4 Blocks)-> 160m3. So something isn’t right here.

So the stats on modules are completely not trustworthy. Even more so if an RNG element is added.

This was further data from live Tranquility testing…based upon on open request for testing data.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

there are two interesting points to make here. Either CCP is massively rounding it up…or has hardcoded it to 1 per cycle. Minimum.

With a modified mining amount of 39.06 I assume it is not hardcoded to 1 per cycle, it just has a very small (2.35%) chance of not getting a block.

Let me explain.

A 40 m3 mining amount to get a 40 m3 block would have 100% chance to get 1 block every cycle.
A 50 m3 mining amount to get a 40 m3 block would get 50/40 = 1.25 block on average each cycle, so has a 25% chance to get 2 blocks and always gets at least one block.

And your picture shows 39.06 m3, which gets 0.9765 block on average, which means a 97.65% chance to get 1 block and 2.35% chance to get zero blocks.

I do not know how many cycles you mined with that thing, but even if you tested 50 cycles you still had a 30% chance of not seeing one drop fall which might give the illusion it is ‘hardcoded to 1 per cycle’.

Eventually you should miss one block in a cycle if you mine long enough with that thing.

For more info:

Catalyst: Expansion Notes | EVE Online

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

And I noticed that depending cycle position you get mercoxcit…if you cancel the cycle.

This always has been the case for strip miners.

I don’t know if it also used to do this for mining lasers before the Catalyst expansion, but I am not surprised those now work like that as well that you can get partial yield by stopping the cycle early.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

Mining Lasers system works the same as the strips. Well before Catalyst. Because the amount of a cycle (proportion of total yield) and also events like warp/EWAR no ore is gained.

But I am not seeing the stochastic rounding on the venture with unmodified T1 Deep Core mining lasers. It was just straight 1 block every cycle. If you short cycle…its giving 1 block per every (sub 1/4 cycle) I was also getting 1 block per 1/2 cycle.

Now that said…abyssal mining modules (both ice and ore…yes I have detected that change) Thats why if you mine with an ice mining laser that is abyssal rolled you have an alternating 1/2 ice block system. Depending on how high the yield is rolled (upwards to 1300m3)

This is also has been detected in other ores. (16m3 ores currently are the only really major ones where it stands out more noticeably…because these particular minables are very fixed yields. (So you see the one extra.) Larger m3 = less ore blocks. Where as things like Veldspar/Mordunium this goes a bit more unnoticed because the amount of units intake is much higher. IE ores of (0.1m3 -10m3)

But this is why the situation with the T1 Deep Core is rather unusual.

Because its overperforming. If the data is correct. Or the Stochastic Rounding is behaving in a way with other mathematics in a way it shouldn’t. Because a T1 Deep Core Mining Laser is now on par with Pre-Catalyst ORE Deep Core. Pre-Catalyst 1 Block per 60 cycle. Per 180sec. 4.

The Stochastic Rounding explains also some of the issues I have found with the Bonus Yields. (IE if you were to statistically put on paper the bonus chance. It should be. For the Deep Core Ore Mining Lasers 1-2% unboosted. So lets say in 180sec you have a 2% chance of hitting a bonus. (0.24) But that is for one mining laser. It can be bumped up by fleet boosts and modules. But the Stochastic rounding system you can actually go past statistic bonus triggers points. Has happened in my Endurance Ice mining tests over hours.

Now what CCP notes there…about the mining lasers/strips means…if the minable incoming m3 didn’t match the mining lasers stated mining volume it was “lost” IE couldn’t be interacted with.

This was apparent during the Trig invasion…you could actually mine Talassonite with Civilian Lasers…but you would get nothing…unless you were using an Endurance which has a 300% mining bonus. You could fit some ships to increase those mining m3 limits past the 16m3 limit per block.

So the model of interaction has been changed. So even items that shouldn’t be able to interact as up to 2025 mining rules. In theory should.

I will now have to test civilian mining lasers against different ores. (can’t do it with Mercoxcit for obvious reasons.) bonused versus unbonused hulls. Because as we have noticed bonused hulls might have some more mathematical adjustments going on. Even if by the old model they are supposed to not get certain resources. Actually I could even probably cross test those deep core mining lasers since 39.06m3 is enough for 2 blocks of (rakoven/talassonite/crokite/eiferium/ducinium…take your pick of 16m3 ores.) And see if the stocastic rounding is altering something there. If its going lets say 3-4-5 over 2. (3 would be within purview of CCPs expansion notes.) - 2 is the baseline by old mechanics. mining laser yield m3 / ore block size m3 [remainder excluded]

Now another point to that the Civilian Mining laser is the only one currently that can not be abyssal rolled. Ironic since most other Civilian kit can be abyssal mutated.

I had the log out as well during my Venture test…it was solid one blocks…no up no down. The only point…was when a singular bonus yield hit…1 block cycle (2 block bonus)

Depending on when your bonus drops on a cycle…your bonus yields can be much larger than suspected.

I do have to point out though…the Stochastic system seems to be a good idea. “Prevention of Min-Max bonus yield gaming” But from my experience of watching players…once scale and Min-Max Roqual boosting happens its kind of a moot point. Bonuses especially on ships like Hulks/Coveters seem to roll way too often. But it does add a level of complexity of mining interaction for solo players (Good/Bad that is to be ascertained yet. )

On the subject of short cycling..it seems that the rules for short cycling have your proportional rule…its. 1/4 cycle…you need 4…to get a block…get to half a cycle…you get the ore block. This is what I am noticing. Short cycling mining lasers before the update was…proportiona m3 of mining laser total m3 per cycle…then cross check against the ore block m3 size. (You may get or not get the ore)

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

The stocastic system is rolling upwards beyond m3 limits.

Ducinium is 16m3. Those T1 Deep Core Mining lasers are 39.06m3. So they should be doing 2 Blocks in the old system. You can see some of the cycles are still doing the 2 block regular roll…but the 3 block is the overflow. Probably goes higher with an abyssal mutated one.

1 is a short cycle of me getting off a hot grid.

But to note…if I were to drop a bonus on that 2 or 3 roll…my bonus yield will be completely different. 2 should be getting 5 blocks…3 should be 7 potentially 8. (I am not sure of the Stocastic Rounding is applying to the bonuses though.)

An unbonused Reaper…the Deep Core Mining Laser rounds up to 16m3 on icon…but in game its saying 15.63m3. So its always 1 block of Ducinium 16m3.

With Civilian Mining Lasers…at 9m3…way below the 16m3 minimum they are getting 1 block every cycle as well. So the Stocastic Rounding…is not working as intended here. Feels like a hardcode in this situation. (Its doing the same thing that the Venture was doing with Mercoxcit…even with its mining m3 below the minimum)

In comparison I tested a Venture with Civilians in. Stocastic Rounding is now online. It alternates between 1-2 blocks of Ducinium. Because Ducinium being 16m3…falls inside that 23.44m3 pull per cycle.

However, an interesting question remains…note that the Ducinium Bonus rolls are not exactly up to par. A 1 block roll went to 2 blocks as it usually should…but it appears Stocastic is also online with Bonus Rolls. Which explains some of the inconsistencies of bonus yields I have been getting. So is the bonus yield also factoring in Stocastic overrun? 1 block 16m3…out of a 23.44m3 mining laser cycle. This adds some interesting questions. Because 2 block bonus yield or a 3 block bonus yield. But might need more exhaustive testing.

But that doesn’t explain how a ~9m3 per cycle mining laser is able to pull something that is 16m3. (nearly double) every cycle. And the same issue shows up with the Mercoxcit as well. Because it does the same odd flat rounding…even with a bonused ship IE…minimum per cycle is always 1 block. But if you take an unbonused hull…it does a set of cycles before you get a block. So Stocastic Rounding…can’t be fully applying correctly…I would think.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

Ducinium is 16m3. Those T1 Deep Core Mining lasers are 39.06m3. So they should be doing 2 Blocks in the old system. You can see some of the cycles are still doing the 2 block regular roll…but the 3 block is the overflow. Probably goes higher with an abyssal mutated one.

With 39.06 m3 yield per cycle and blocks sized 16 m3 you would expect to get 2.44 blocks on average.

So 44% of the time you get three blocks and the remaining 56% of the time you get 2 blocks.

Your logs of getting cycles of sometimes three blocks and sometimes two blocks follows that prediction.

That’s how stochastic rounding should be working, and as far as I know, is working.

Is there anything left to discuss on this topic?

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

But that doesn’t explain how a ~9m3 per cycle mining laser is able to pull something that is 16m3. (nearly double) every cycle

Your log doesn’t show the cycles where you got no units. I do however see that not every 10 seconds there is a message.

I suspect you do mine 0 units on average every 44% cycles, but it just doesn’t show up in the logs.

[Geo_Eclipse_Oksaras]

idk if “shut up milint” works here like it did on the discord, but i would bow out now lol… they did this on the eve forums, even ISD’s had to tell him to stop..

[Gerard_Amatin]

I’m familiar with milint’s reddit and discord posts and it was my initial urge. But I’ve got some patience so I wanted to see if milint possibly did spot something that I did not yet know.

Until now it all appears to nicely follow the new stochastic rounding CCP introduced in Catalyst though.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

But that is the problem…if something gets to a particular “low point”

The Deep Core on an unbonused hull is doing the same thing with Ducinium…that it was doing on a bonused hull for Mercoxcit.

It looks like with the data. If your mining laser is below a set threshhold…you get default 1 block.

Its a question that needs to be asked.

Because my T1 Deep Core tests with Ventures [Bonused] is getting data that is saying 1 block every cycle. It doesn’t seem to be following the Stocastic Rounding system.

Now if you got unbonused Reaper with T1 Deep Core, it seems to be doing an inverted Stocastic. IE it requires multiple cycles to get 1 Block.F

Now as I posted earlier, I was going to check other materials to see if there was an analog to what I am seeing elsewhere.

The same problem is showing up with other ores.

Venture with Deep Core is 39.06m3…so perfectly over the 32m3 (2 Block of Ducinium) So you see a Stocastic Rounding. 2-3 blocks.

But when you swap to a non-bonused hulled ship. You don’t see the Stocastic Rounding if the yield of the mining laser goes below a set m3. It goes to 1 block per cycle.

And this also goes even further when you go with Civilian Miners which are 9-10m3. Way below the 16m3 its rolling 1 block Ducinium every cycle. Not doing the Stocastic Rounding. I think it needs some more research and review.

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

It looks like with the data. If your mining laser is below a set threshhold…you get default 1 block.

Its a question that needs to be asked.

Well obviously the threshold is the yield per cycle. If your yield is less than or equal to the size of one block you’re never going to get more than one block.

And if your yield is equal or higher than the size of one block you’re never going to get less than one block.

Why do you even need to ask that question?

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

Because my T1 Deep Core tests with Ventures [Bonused] is getting data that is saying 1 block every cycle. It doesn’t seem to be following the Stocastic Rounding system.

Did you read what I wrote above?

You got zero messages about getting 0 blocks. You also have a cycle time of 10 seconds.
Many of your 1 block messages were 10 seconds apart. Some were 20 or 30 seconds apart. Those 10 second intervals without a message were those with 0 blocks, and were without a log entry.

You did not get only one block every cycle, some cycles were without blocks.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

I cross checked again. Yes you are correct on the skipping.
But here is a problem with that. Why is it allowing this kind of action?
Because I am able to collect with 27m3 cycle load…48m3 of ore. (Thats alot more than rounding / Stocastic roundingup should be allowing.) Then you have a skip of 27m3 on paper that seems reasonable if we are following the system. You get another block…9m3 to a 16m3 trade…then a skip…then 3 more blocks…before the ship is full. (unbonused reaper.) So I can only hold 7 Crokite blocks. 112m3.

I went back and tested it with a T1 Deep Core Mining Laser to be thorough on that unbonused ship.

Now the mining m3 is about 15.63m3. So this time its rounding the cycle size…I believe. To 16m3. So each cycle is 1 block 16m3 exact. No deviations were detected.

Now this same thing happens with Mercoxcit. It appears that if you are close enough to a set limit for the ore. The system cross checks it…and just rounds. So 39.06m3 becomes 40m3. Bingo 1 Mercoxcit per cycle. One problem…that is way more Mercoxcit than what the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser did Pre-Catalyst.

Pre-Catalyst T1 Deep Core…was 40m3 per 60sec cycle. [1 Block] - 2 if you were using a Venture.

Now with the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser dropped to 10m3 per 15sec cycle. If you use it on a Venture its getting to 39.05 m3 per 15sec. (1 Block) (15 sec x 4cycles =60sec) So its doing about 4 blocks. (+2 over the original stat) Over 180secs. Thats 12 blocks. And total a Venture can pull 24 blocks due to having two mining lasers.

This same kind of problem is showing up with other mining lasers especially if you start to get close to the maximum require m3 per cycle for an ore block. You start to see 1 cycle = 1 block. Sometimes over performing its original Pre-Catalyst variant. This is not factoring in bonus yields.

Now that said. This quirk and problem also is tied to mining skills being 100% (max V)

So this discussion also should raise some concerns that lower skilled miners will have more skipping which is a waste of time as well.

For the Barge Pilots this isn’t really a big problem because you have much larger yield m3 per cycle. (So barge pilots actually have a fairly nice buff with this.)

While mining frigates and the new mining destroyers are a bit in a quandry/nerf. And remember that Mining Frigates have 100% hull mining buffs. (Endurance with 300%) Destroyers (both Pioneers are at 50% hull bonus)

One could say scaling, but that also means alot of materials and options to get into mining are further bottlenecked. Yes you can “fleet boost” out of the problem. But, “fleet boosting” isn’t and option for most newbros / alphas.

And if these issues are apparent to a fully skilled both hull and mining skill Omega. How is that going to do for an Alpha?

Mercoxcit being Omega stuff anyways…but there another issue of fitting compounded with it being a lower skill access point for Morphite reprocessing.

But you can see the complications for non-Omega players if the yields are far lower. How many times will people skip cycles and have no yield? You can’t really upgrade your way out of the problem either…and the mutaplamid mutation option is again Omega only.

And Barges are primarily Omega…and have alot of benefits and support (Fleet Boosting) because of Omega.

It needs some looking into still.

I do enjoy the mining bonus concept, the potential to use residue fail rolls to clear anoms, and being able to mutate to various desired stats, but the overall mechanic system seems to have some “quirks” that shouldn’t be happening. If the claim is “everything is equal and the same as before”

[Gerard_Amatin]

@MILINT_ARC_Trooper

One problem…that is way more Mercoxcit than what the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser did Pre-Catalyst.

Pre-Catalyst T1 Deep Core…was 40m3 per 60sec cycle. [1 Block] - 2 if you were using a Venture.

Now with the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser dropped to 10m3 per 15sec cycle.

40 m3 per 60 seconds is on average the same as 10 m3 per 15 seconds.

Please, if you’re having trouble with numbers it might be better not to attempt to draw revolutionary conclusions about numbers on your own.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

T1 Deep Core Mining Laser
40m3 per 60seconds. Pre-Catalyst…is 1 Block of Mercoxcit (40m3)
On a Venture hull that is 80m3 per 60seconds. Which is 2 blocks of Mercoxcit (80m3)

Post-Catalyst
T1 Deep Core Mining Laser
10m3 → 39.06m3 per 15sec. [max skilled both Astrogeology and Mining Frigates] 1 Block per 15sec. 15sec x 4 cycles = 60sec.

So the new stats are outperforming the old ones. You only got 2 blocks per 60secs with a Venture. (Pre-Catalyst) and now you get 4 blocks (+2) which is more (Post-Catalyst)

There is some offsets due to the changes in mechanics. That might be considered a buff (unintentionally) but fitting makes it nearly hard to use.

[Gerard_Amatin]

You’re comparing apples and oranges here.

You’re applying ship buffs and skills in the post-catalyst situation but not in the pre-catalyst situation.

Yes, Catalyst buffed mining somewhat with abyssal rolls and crit mining yield, but that applies to all ore and ice mining equipment equally, so this isn’t specific to deep core mining lasers.

[MILINT_ARC_Trooper]

Well my data was using flat material, for the T1 Deep Core Mining Laser.

Pre-Catalyst the Module is 40m3…Post-Catalyst Module 10m3
Cycle Time PRE-C 60sec. POS-C 15sec.
Total Mercoxcit numbers as I have noted before.

Pre-Catalyst on a Venture. (Pyfa v2.29.0-circa 2020.)
40m3 goes to 80m3 (100% hull bonus.) Maximum Yield is (189m3 )
Miner Yield…now if you were just fitting the Deep Core I’s on the Venture hull.

You get 156m3 - 3 Blocks per 60seconds. And you can work with that.

This stays stable through Legion up to Catalyst. 2.63.0 (2025)

Now…if you cross check data both in game and pyfa. Post-Catalyst through v2.65.4-5. (Nov 2025 → Present Day)

Now…that we know that 39.1 (Another round up…from in game 39.06.)

And the mechanics are giving us 1 Block of Mercoxcit as further up posts are showing is happening per 15sec.

15sec cycle x 4 cycles = 60secs.

2020-2025 T1 Deep Core Mining Laser is getting 3 Blocks. Now Post Catalyst (Nov 2025-> Present Day in 2026) its doing 4 Blocks. [total] if we compare via a 60sec time set.

Yes its probably an unintentional buff, but its there with the way the game mechanics are happening. You can play it out that it has caused some unintended consequences.

And this is not counting bonus critical yields.