60M
60M Lv 4 missions? Lets get real, that is bare minimum of what you will be making. Unless you run every mission under the sun in fits with less than 500 dps…
I will have you define “nets” in this case - is that only wallet or also assets?
I guess we will have to take your word for it.
£10 a month as always
Difficult to establish the income of anything, anyone in and out of EVE as freelancer model. And since we have yet to see a single sizable next move into the chaos fart that I think will never happen, I guess it leads to trying on justify survivability based on wallet fat and preconception of ample time to exercise a single task with no interruption. So, that ISK - hour was fact and still is within the donutbrella and this move has been already deemed useless against it (Hilmar). It is no longer so much of a simple presumption of production ability.
But you could calculate the expenses, the value of all assets, including pilots as minimum to survive in Null, with SOV, upgrades, extra personal security imposed by BO, etc.
For example, a pocket of 5 systems. What did it take? BEFORE BO. And then afterwards.
In the end, it may result that a so called “average” team cannot survive out there, period.
IMO it’s whats going on and no one has the time, knowledge and data to produce any answer. I apologize for being repetitive on this but we just can’t self pat our backs when we come to forums with agendas like “phuk off” “move or die” “live with it, adpat or unsub” yadayada after elaborate crapscade posting.
We know it takes time, we know ISK is there to be made, we know all that. But no one can jump to conclude that it is doable without some looking into.
I’m trying to find someone that could do that calculation because the more I look into it, the bigger the survival essentials get. And don’t forget: we are not just talking about a handful of systems in which you can share with your friends. We have to consider a turf 24/7 minus stupidity.
Then, we will have numbers to discuss about before those trigger happy morons pretend that a grammar revision of a retard statement qualifies them as gatekeepers of any public opinion medium.
Eh its to be an expected response from people who during their time on the forums have been told exactly the same by these null folk whenever they objected to a change.
Doesnt make it right, but its a pretty normal reaction.
It may just happen that some lame excuse for a fixed sperm competition, say that the ultimate answer…
…is forty-two.
Do you at all understand how markets work?
As smaller producers are forced out of an industry, large groups take over. Once they have a commodity tied up so they are the only major producers, prices start to go up.
A car that costs under 10K to build can be sold for 30 to 40K because it is popular and only one company makes it.
Imagine for a second - The highest isk making and producing region in the game somehow get more of a monopoly because many smaller producers get driven out of the industry - Do you imagine they are going to sell their wares cheaply OR will they increase prices to maximise profits?
Not sure your math is correct - Lower Plex to isk ratio - you pay to play with real money - You need to buy more plex from CCP to fund your game time. Not hard to work out, you were getting say 3 bil isk for the plex you purchased with real dollars, now you only get 2 bil .
For those buying your plex on the in game market - Yes the ratio is rising, getting more plex for the same isk - For you to play as you stated (buying pex from CCP), you are getting less isk per plex.
10 pound a month pays for your sub. How much are you prepared to spend to play the game - Unless you have unlimited isk already or just don’t undock, you are going to need to generate isk to fund your play time.
How I have fun in EvE isnt really your business now, is it?
Stop trying to dictate to others how to play.
You haven’t the force of will for a start, sport.
LOL, I love it.
I wasn’t trying to “dictate” anything - I was asking you a genuine question out of curiosity.
Your response told me enough, no point trying to discuss something with someone who has no clue.,.
■■■■■■■■ mate
You aint got nothing apart from your own emotions to work from, face it.
Yes i do but i choose not to buy plex, i earn my isk in game, from time to time i have bought some plex as a boost to wallet when something big was going on or wanted something shiney faster or a mate in game needed some help with isk or gametime but in general i earn what i need.
nah far from it, i have my fingers in many pies 
i started playing as an industrialist, my corp got it’s A hole handed to it after a war dec many moons ago, lost most of our members, so we took CCP’s advice and HTFU, learned more about PVP, survived the purge and here i am 12 years later.
Not gonna say it’s all been ups, there has been many downs but yea,
i do love PVP, but just as much as the rest of the game, mostly 
i guess that’s CCP’s issue to resolve, but i do get what ya saying. have to also add that running that many chars must be a right pain in tha hoop, i’ve ran 3 to 5 at times and thought nah, too much micromanagment for my likeing.
less bots and krabs perhaps, krabs we need bots we don’t, I’m not sure i can agree it’s devoid of life.
well then i think it’s time they take a look at the alliance/corp they hang with, if their mates can’t or worse won’t support/help/teach them then why are they in that alliance/corp?
seems like a one way street to me that i would not be a part of.
PVE’ers can in reasonable safety earn isk to fund their game play if they work together so they don’t stop playing, so it’s up to them to sort the issue, rise to the challange if ya get me 
again.
Content can be… slow in WH space. Training patience to V is defiantly a must.
Catching PVErs, at least actaul wormholer PVErs is just more difficult, anyone who spends any time out here gets good at watching Dscan.
See one of the things that kept me playing was the micromanagement that came with running multiple chars. I’m an industrialist first and a PVP’r second, I get satisfaction out of setting up my characters and putting them to work.
15 years on I have less chars now than I did 10 years ago because I’ve managed to streamline my activities and optimise my income. My highsec freighter alt, jump freighter alt, cyno chars are are all necessary for me to play as i choose. I could get rid of my mining alts and make a little less off each item i build by simply buying raw materials but I am one of the weird ones that actually enjoys mining (or did at least until blackout). I never liked shooting NPC’s for isk, I find it tedious and boring.
Out where i live there is/was a number of small/er groups within 8 or 10 jumps. Now we are travelling a lot further afield and many times find nothing. There are so many more empty systems now than a month ago, summer may pay a small part in this but Blackout certainly added to it.
And yes Less Bots is about the only good thing to come from this.,.
In a lot of cases it isn’t that others won’t help, it has more to do with how much easier it is for hunters to move about. Not all groups in Nul are large enough to have a decent standing fleet to support PVE’rs. This is a big part of the problem with Blackout. I have a friend who is a recruiter for a Goon friendly alliance, he told me the other night he has had more apps from players and corps in the last month then in the last 2 years. This is an extremely negative outcome from Blackout. The last thing we need is for the largest groups in Sov Nul to grow even bigger.,.
Umm… you don’t know whom you are talking to?
Anyway good - more profits for me.
And no, smaller producers are not being forced out of an industry. I heard this one when I was new, heard it in 2017, 2018 and I hear this today - that small guys can’t make enough profits. Yet I somehow managed to make vast majority of my wealth with trade and industry. I wonder if that is not issue of pebkac by chance.
I don’t buy plex from ccp to play - I sub my accounts with plex from ccp but that is only cause I am too lazy to manage subscriptions. I could easily sub all my accounts with plex from market, but why make isk just to be able to make isk?
The change will not be visible for a while but I do know of several players who now only run one account - All BPO’s etc are up on contracts.
For the time being the change won’t have a huge impact on the player base but if more and more small time manufacturers and miners leave the industry side of the game behind the large groups get even more of a market share than they now control. This is bad for the game and no amount of developer intervention (bar CCP disbanding these groups) will change the eventual outcome.
There is too much wealth in the game, CCP’s current direction to deal with this is to make it harder for the small groups to compete - A really bad idea in a game this old with sooo much wealth in the hands of the few.,.
Management need to stop, look at the game and where the problems lie. Address the problems professionally instead of with half baked changes that have no affect on where the actual problem lies.
CCP needs to throw out everything they “think” they know about Eve and start over. If current management is incapable of finding “real” solutions maybe PA needs to step in and take some action.
Dear Hilmar - Danger Game is a nice collectors item - Don’t let EveOnline join it and become a cool memory in a tin box.,.
Why should they leave if profits go up? The barrier to entry manufacturing is so low, that every profit gap will be closed in record time. If not, I’m here to help harvesting the extra ISK 
I’m more concerned about demand of final products and following prices going down, because of less players getting stuff destroyed or having the ISK to buy.
Laugh? I nearly ■■■■
Seriously, you have no right to say that other people don’t know how to play when you say things like this to support "The change will not be visible for a while but I do know of several players who now only run one account "
Define: small time manufacturer
How many millions/billions of average daily manufacture till one is big guy?
Ok I concede I worded it wrongly - Small producers may continue on (I’m not) but as you say, as the demand for end products drops as less stuff is killed, so does profit - This will lead to small operators getting out of industry.