Meh, I was mostly referring to my own perspective. The controls were the same, the ships flew essentially the same, BoB was the big kid in null, now looks like goons. The surface stuff I guess…
Would I have been correct if I said EVE is about adapting except for farmers?
EVE is a complex game and has many many layers to it. I have some understandings of your concerns about the direction of the game. If EVE were to have an even greater influx of farmers, are farmers completely hopeless? Will they never convert to EVE’s greater offerings? I’ve read about farmers converting, I try to do it when I can as well, and I’m sure you’ve converted one or two yourself. Could CCP do more to help in this conversion process? Absolutely.
But EVE is going to change whether we like it or not, the devs are going to do what they have to. CCP can add in as many mini games as they will, but as long as the mechanics exist within EVE to create danger and stories, there may always be at least some hope. EVE has had a good run as an MMO for 16 years, how long can we expect it to last, 30, 50, 100 years? Nothing lasts forever in this universe, not even black holes, in theory. So do we just throw in the towel and give up? Or keep trying one farmer at a time, until if/when the game changes irrecoverably, or lights out…?
I think everyone would stand up a cheer for some game changes that help new players get into the game. Changes that help new players find the interesting bits, maybe level the ‘incumbent advantage’ some, and allow them to engage with New Eden right away.
This isn’t that though. This is just blatant selling of in-game progress for cash. Not that CCP hasn’t done that all along in a sense, and gone whole hog on the selling power monetization model since skill extractors, but this is just more of that, not a real action or game change to get new players to stay. They could have limited it to just new accounts, and then could have plausibly said it is just a variant on the new player packages they have been selling for years, but they didn’t, and instead it will mostly be consumed by established customers, looking for the cheapest way to buy in-game power.
I can’t see most new player reacting favourably to being told they need to spend hundreds of dollars on packs like this, and PLEX/injectors to “catch up” to the rest of the players. They will see through this pay-to-advance model complete with the omnipresent trashy F2P marketing, and say “no thanks”. If they really wanted to level the field, they should be making SP less relevant for game play, not trying to sell SP to new players.
Most players aren’t going to buy into that. They will play for free for a week or two, realize how gimped they are or never find the interesting parts of the game, and quit. And then you get the terrible attrition rates that were presented at Eve North. Selling a 1M SP booster pack isn’t going to fix that, and giving veterans easy access to yet another 1M SP advantage over the new entrants is just making the problem worse.
CCP, there is plenty of goodwill here to help you with your desire to get new players into the game. But trying to monetize them isn’t helping the issue, and your recent montetization efforts to sell power to the established players has just made the incumbent-advantage problem worse. I’m not sure if you really believe these heavily monetized “catch up” mechanisms have solved the power gap issue - you can’t really given the metrics even if the easy profit you have found is weighing heavily on your judgement. The game needs serious work to make the game interesting for new players, and likely those game design challenges are going to cost you resources, not magically also make you money like some of your management seem to believe.
Turing Eve into yet-another-pay-2-advance free-to-play game means you are going to have terrible retention rates like I imagine most in this genre have. This is to be expected, and while a few whales will off-set the bottom-line some, long-term activity in your game is going to suffer from the imbalances in your game unless you can solve all the game design challenges transitioning to this model brings. Yet you seem to show no evidence of being willing or able to deal with this.
So many of us want you to succeed, but you seem to be stubbornly going down a path that does not lead to ‘Eve Forever’. Maybe forces are at work here that prevent any other route, but with so much goodwill there, I have to believe other choices were possible.
Oh well, that are enough words on this disappointing topic. Enjoy your summer anyway CCP, and I hope there is some real changes to help new players in the pipeline we will hear about soon.
Won’t quote the whole post because by and large I agree with what you said there. And agree that selling skill points isn’t the answer.
Just wanted to add that sometimes even core mechanics have to change or at least be freshened up. Something that worked okay 15+ years ago is not necessarily viable in todays market and todays game.
Time/sub-training SP was one thing, 10-15 years ago, when people were at max a few years ahead of you in the game. It’s another thing when there are people out there with entire squadrons of alts with more SP, ISK and game advantages than you can ever catch up to. A PvP based game needs at least a minimal appearance of a ‘not ridiculously rigged against you playing field’. EVE worked when the playing field was more level. The more distorted the playing field has become, the worse EVE mechanics and game play work.
Again, won’t quote all, because I agree with the post. I guess the difference is, I’ve been watching EVE decline for years now, and I’ve been completely expecting them to cave and start selling P2W (or P2-catch-up). I’m surprised they held out as long as they did. The game has a joke for a cash store and subs must have been dropping for a long time now.
If CCP even had an inkling of how their client base thinks, they would have sold it as an SP accelerator that offers 2X or even 4X the normal skill gain rate. But they can’t see beyond throwing out shinies for the fast payoff.
Oh well, the game was fun while it lasted I guess. I’d like to say I thought it had a decent future but I really don’t see CCP taking it in any directions that lead that way.
We are in agreement. But rather than changing the mechanics CCP keeps slapping on monetization band-aids which fix nothing and do more damage to new player first impressions when they see the start, the finish line, and nothing in between but a cash option to help them get there.
It’s why i feel EVE does need to change the skill training mechanics. It’s also why I feel something must be done to enhance the gameplay of intermediate level players. Something to fill the void between basic missions/exploration and highly the punishing abyssal space, null, or wormholes. It’s quite literally the perfect place to include challenging activities that require group play. That gets them involved with other players (though alts are inevitable) allowing them to create bonds to fill in the gaps in their training. Missions and new types of mid to high level exploration can accomplish that. Especially if each person is rewarded separately and at an amount to make it feel rewarding to do so.
@CCP_Falcon I understand that you want to avoid responding to the heated aspects of this. But can you provide your thoughts on what me and Kezrai have been talking about as far as your thoughts on skill training and the missing middle of the road gameplay to keep people interested in the time between NPE and when they’re ready for massive fleet warfare and the harshness of space that come along with living in null/WH.
I have no doubt. It is interesting that responses tend to be on subjects that are really not that game changing.
The subject of this thread is a fantastic distraction away from actually game breaking/changing issues that have been on the forums since invasion release. With zero response so far, at least I have not heard of or seen.
Incursions… That community is screaming for a response. I dont even do incursions and I definitely have noticed.
Invasion loot and salvage… Agin forums are full on this subject.
Two major game play options asking questions and giving feedback with no response. Yet just today a debate on skill points being sold gets a response, and an issue with the repair option not showing on the drop down menu got a near instant response.
Agreed. NPE needs to get players into the mental framework for the game (losing ships is OK, PvP is a thing, EVE is dark and scary but there are ways to make the night work in your favor).
Then tools like FW, Resource Wars and perhaps even FOBs (assuming they could be implemented correctly) need to form the ‘activity funnels’ for not-quite-new to intermediate players to practice grouping up, working together, taking out trickier targets while also learning to fight-or-flight if bloodthirsty merc players jump them.
Then players need a range of ‘graduated progression’ so that it isn’t “oh, okay, you’re used to high sec, now you cross the border into Low and bam! you can get jumped by every 50M+ SP hunter-killer gang that can spot you”. That’s just not something new or intermediate players can be expected to handle (in general, specific exceptions always exist).
In another post (a few months back) I mentioned how if 1.0-0.9-0.8 made up ‘high sec’, and low began at 0.7 but it was:
0.7 - Frigs and Destroyers max
0.6 - Cruisers max
0.5 - BCs max
0.4 - BS max
0.3 and under - as now
(Freighters/Haulers in all, and mining vessels would unlock gradually by sec level as well)
then we would have some options for graduated progression. It would also add options to using the above tools (FW, Resource wars, NPC mining fleets, FOBs, maybe even Incursions) as entrees into gang/small group PvP.
But CCP either will not or cannot re-envision the game, it seems. Only make (relatively) minor tweaks to existing setups, and toss out new enticements to hand over cash for instant gains.
That’s an interesting idea, not too dissimilar to one of my own we talk about in corp comms from time to time. More or less a scaling back of what we consider to be current high sec and “green locking” it. Surrounded by faction controlled space (explained by the collapse of CONCORD) where pvp is allowed, but reacted to by the controlling faction’s police and corresponding standings loss if it takes place near any sensitive infrastructure (gates/stations/pocos, to still allow for most normal travel to go unhindered) - which would result in inability to dock at any structure after a point. Surrounded by current low sec where capitals are allowed, but factions no longer have any control but have established cyno jammers in all systems in an attempt to expand their own boarders into the pirate space (peace is in flux, factions now looking to expand their influence again). Then unchanged null sec, but some changes to jump mechanics may be required to not create too much of a hellscape due to jammed lowsec routes - not that it wouldn’t be a good thing, but there are limits to what is reasonably expected of a player/group. Then WH get’s a desperately needed update to their sites and mechanics so more people may be tempted to venture in.
But you are right, such changes are really drastic compared to what CCP seem comfortable making. And let me be honest here, I’m not convinced the existing playbase could adapt to such a change without losing too many in the process to warrant the changes in hopes that it gets more to come and stay involved.
I have a really bad headache and don’t feel like reading all this. So this starter pack deal is a one time 1000000 sp that can be applied to any character or just a new character?
We just saw presentation of dismal player retention numbers at EVE North and yet you present this slap in the face to people who would start EVE. Any new player with brain must run far away from it.
If you want more retention, the game must be engaging. Simple as that. Crap about complexity early on and simplification won’t help either.
If you want different playerbase, well go on.
Good luck communicating to CCP upper echelons that the majority of the loyal customer base believe they are failing the community, are ineptly out of touch and the current state of the game befalls on their mismanagement, reneging on the core principles that made this game different and thrive at its peak before said neglect; now the corporate suits just see shameless cash grabs and theme park as the “grand new vision”.
People should just start booing Hilmar if taking the podium at fan events. Maybe then, when faced with the reality, the bubble might burst…but I doubt it. We’re past the point this can be reversed anyway, so I doubt there is anything CCP can do now that will roll back any of the decay and community trust that has long since been diminished.
