CCP - Need to look at neutral bumping alts

Seems feigned neutrality is the problem to begin with.

Seems like Marauders would not get bumped. Seems like battleshiops got chosen to do a job made for a higher class ship because they are (much) cheaper?

Hat did I name my bump ship again? Bumpty McBumpface. :laughing:

If you actually read the OP, you’d see there wasn’t issue on the structure. The issue was on the return trip after the timer was won.

Also, the issue is solely with high-sec and wardecs. I use bumping as a valid mechanic to keep people off holes and structures all the time. Valid mechanic so long as the target has the ability to peel your face off without the cops’ intervention.

Also, do your homework - I’m not a carebear, nor do I hide behind alts on the forums.
We brought a proper structure-bashing comp for a small fleet. Considering none of us are high-sec carebears, we didn’t even realize there was such a broken-assed mechanic available… or we’d likely just told the friends to abandon the station as we covered their asset move to our space.

We wanted an actual fight. Not some highsec bull-■■■■ bowling game.

We learned that highsec war-decs are cancerous bull-■■■■ because of these broken mechanics.

Definitely won’t participate in another, at least so long as non participants can just spool up an OoC alpha toon and do lame ■■■■ like this.

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Like this part of your OP:

Maybe reading your own OP would be a good step, because you clearly imply that is an issue on a structure.

This thread shows otherwise. You very much are a carebear, whining for the game to be changed because it’s too hard for you at the moment. That is a carebear attitude.

You thought you’d bring your nullsec big-boy pants to highsec and you were beaten. Now you are crying about it.

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Again, no homework done. Nullsec space is crap. Actually IMO all systems where local exist are crap.
Also, yes, with slightly more adept and numerous pilots, it is trivial to bump a battleship off-station so long as it’s not glitched inside the station completely. If you were a competent pilot, you’d know this.

Getting the impression that you’re one of the people using the broken mechanic, and feel threatened that your 0-risk ‘carebear’ tactic would be removed, and require you to actually put up some risk to go with the reward.

Saying something is broken, when it is obviously being used in ways unintended, is not whining about it being ‘too hard’. It’s calling for something broken to be fixed.

What is whining and carebear-ish is you screaming foul when you’re wanting to keep a 0-risk playstyle in-game.

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#d bits will be sarcasm…
Assumptions were made.

  1. You assume he fights anywhere aside from highsec wardecs. When he’s not using ban-avoidance.
  2. Just as he dismisses the original post that he completely read and understood.

While I agree that bumping itself is a valid tactic, bumping with OoC alts with no risk that isn’t immediately more risky to implement to counter, is not a valid tactic in my book.

The cost of a ship to blap the overpropped Omen is worth ISK that will be guaranteed lost as it will be CONCORDed, while the bumper suffers no risk until something that can blap it shows up, for which they will be reimbursed insurance.

This is why I worked on possible solutions to the issue that left legitimate bumping tactics in place, while removing obviously cancerous bull-■■■■ practices.

================
For Clarification:

I bump people off hole and station all the time. But they have the option to fight back. This also wouldn’t interrupt the normal (still cancerous imo) bumping in high-sec with miners and PvE dudes, just the stupidity that is there when there is actual ■■■■ on field that is fighting in a war, and there being a 0-risk way to pull ■■■■ off like what happened with us – we sure as hell weren’t going to shoot a <100m Omen with >700m Leshes for a guaranteed loss, and we weren’t going to violate ToS logging in alpha-toons with omens to counter-counter the Omens, or log out DPS/Logi for ganking catalysts or Nados… that would have been equally retarded.

I think you should write a book explaining your space bushido. It might become a bestseller.

I dismissed that as a possible solution in the same paragraph it was suggested.
If you read the rest of the post instead of hard stopping there, you’d have realized it.

You really are just making a fool of yourself here.

I never said bumping in of itself is not valid. The game has had the mechanic for as long as I recall. I use bumping myself every chance I get – bump heavy ships out of alignment so we can fight. Bump them off wormholes to force a fight or prevent escape.

The explicitly targeted thing I dislike and call out is out of corp, and likely Alpha, alts being used to bump parties in an actual war. I’d have absolutely 0-shits given if there was any risk to the bumper that didn’t involve the goal of it to occur regardless of intervention due to abuse of CONCORD mechanics in this case.

The point of bumping in this case is to get the allied in-war friends to delete a ship of the other side. If the other guy shoots the OoC bumper, they get CONCORDed. If they don’t shoot, they get blapped by the war targets. This is a completely one-sided, bull-■■■■ mechanic. Especially when the only real ‘defence’ would have been to either - log out DPS/logi to swap for a gank-ship, or violate ToS to log in/create an alpha toon to fly a gank-ship. Neither of which anyone in their right mind was going to do.

Your example of a freighter being bumped pretty much means you didn’t read the OP, or if you did, surely did not comprehend what you read.

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Sounds like your fleet comp and fitting needs some work. Yes battleships are easy to bump when they are stationary. Slap a prop mod on there and it is no longer an issue.

It appears you still haven’t read the OP. Please, read it in its entirety. Aligning ships from gate cloak to warp is not ‘stationary’.

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Sounds like you can call for your fleet to align to the desti, activate a MJD to propel yourselves 100km towards that direction, then warp the fleet onwards to your desired location.

That would surely eliminate the need for this thread?

The MJD idea did come to mind after the fact; however, this would still possibly guarantee at least one lost ship, if not more. Logi cannot fit an MJD, and the DPS would have had to refit, meaning that they could keep one bumped out while we warped to a station to refit. It would have been useful during the trip back to jspace, for sure.

There is also the matter of bumping during the fight, which thankfully they executed poorly. They had 3, which if they’d been co-ordinated and a bit more skilled, they could have also easily done. If they’d ‘pinged’ us off the station, then used another ship to bump again, they’d have easily gotten some kills during the actual structure bash. I know this works as I’ve used it in past fights to keep the other dudes off their citadel and keep em outta tether range.

MJDs during the bash would have been suicidal considering the range of citadels, and the lack of MJD on logi.

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One option is to move your fleet of ships safely in a bowhead. Bowhead if flown properly aligns into warp in 10 seconds and can be even quicker by webbing it. So maybe move your fleet into position that way to a station to stage out of… then undock from there using an insta undock bookmark to arrive at your intended location.

Battleships with an AB are difficult to bump.

Depending on your fleet comp and fitting, I’d disagree. But let’s say the comp you want to use isn’t ideal for MJD’ing around - this is a good argument for command destroyers being able to MJD in Highsec! Something I’ve lobbied for to create interesting and dynamic fleet engagements.

Also there are fleet comps that aren’t easily made vulnerable with bumping that are available for you to use.

No. Don’t use it, but not frightened by the possibility. Keep the tears up though.

Unitended in CCP’s view is “emergent” and once it occurs, they decide if it’s an OK use of something they didn’t see, or an exploit and then notify everyone and patch it out.

In the case of bumping, it’s specifically not an exploit in CCP’s eyes. They recently changed the mechanics to prevent indefinite low-risk bumping, which is fine, but they also still see bumping, even in highsec war situations, as ok.

Shoot the bumping ship. You have every ability to deliver consequences for the choice to bump.

However, of course, you aren’t prepared to face the consequences of doing so, so instead you are crying here and asking for the game to be changed.

I’ll just leave this here. “Shooting back” is the stupidest ■■■■■■■ answer you have spewed out.

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Also I actually took the time to read your complaints and I stopped when I read ”overpropped omens” LMAO.

If you choose not to adapt your fleet in any way to counter this you def won’t put in the tiny amount of effort to counter-bump them.

An Omen fitted like that is going to need a LARGE runway to build speed enough to bump a battleship 50k. Any amount of movement will cause the Omen to whiff. Sounds like you intend on brawling stationary and this your refusal to adapt is laughable. Like the easiest solution here is to move a LITTLE or you could even have your own bump to collide into them well before they are able to hit your ships.

Please correct me if I’m wrong about any of the above.

The bowhead bit… is a bit much. I don’t think we had anyone on that run that could (or would) fly a bowhead, and the risk of losing the bowhead during active chase is very high even if any one of us owned one.
We used MWD on our battleships which is how we cozied up so easily, and pulsing it when people got aimed in was how we prevented them from getting really good bumps as it blooms the mass and inertia. Being from Jspace we understand MJD/AB mechanics a bit more than most :stuck_out_tongue:
The main issue was during extraction.

However, neither point really matters much to me is the simple fact that using OoC alts in a way that affects the war-decced parties, and with a 0-sum risk (retaliation = CONCORD, lack of retaliation = losing ships) vs reward (enemy lost a ship, plus possible loot).

This is precisely why they removed OoC logi and fleet boosting. It’s time they looked at bumping (in this specific case) with the same regard.

mostly cleared just above this. Though, in testing, I’ve been able to hit what I aim at with the fit they used. Any misses on stuff was 'cause they can’t fly well. Sure, if you hit approach, you’ll whiff hard. But manual piloting with knowledge of where they’re facing, makes it trivial.

**I’ll add that I’m doing this off my rocker on pain-meds, with a trackball I’m using since my main hand is out of commission from shoulder surgery–don’t ever mess up your shoulder it SUCKS ASS.

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#1 use a neutral alt

Why is putting forth effort “a bit much”? I give you a solution to the gate issue and you dismiss it as if you shouldn’t have to put that much effort into it. Being that you are war eligible does no one in your group have a neutral bowhead pilot?

Next thing we know you’ll be complaining about how wars are dumb because you lose your in Corp haulers.

Let’s remove neutral alts as scouts and warpins
Let’s remove ACLs
Let’s remove neutral haulers
Let’s remove the fleet hangar from DSTs

There are these plus MANY more “unfair” ways a neutral can involve itself relatively risk free in the game. The thing here is that Eve Online is a game that rewards the most knowledgeable, best prepared, and those most willing to adapt. If you’re expecting a different experience out of ANY area of the game then clearly you are blind.

This is hardly a game breaking issue as I’ve presented you with multiple methods for dealing with it, not to mention its biggest glaring weakness.

Also how the ■■■■ do you FC a fleet and see a neutral bumper and warp the fleet off leaving a guy behind? If you can out-rep the enemy damage then you can have your fleet align and hold grid long enough for the bump timer to kick in and thus warp away… or you know fight them on the gate?