CCP - Need to look at neutral bumping alts

I don’t know what happened to you, but I used to think you were all right. That is probably the lamest excuse I ever heard to not post evidence. It screams that you have none. Of course I have a feeling that now you will post “something” that won’t be proof of “anything” in an attempt to throw more camoflage on it.

LOL :laughing:

Nobody is all right ever. Everybody makes mistakes.
The difference is the ability to acknowledge one’s mistakes. Exactly the ability you are missing.

I have no duty to bring you proof. You don’t bring any proof, you don’t even try to understand what I’m saying, just claim you have more knowledge on the topic. You are ignorant.

Ships in Eve are spheres. You can make tests in the game to prove they are not affected by any the visual alignment of your ship - that is, the visual alignment is not used in the model.
If you don’t, then you’ll remain ignorant for as long as you wish, and your opinion will remain irrelevant, as based on a false premise and childish claims.

This is not the claim you made, in this example you have now given there was a previous direction of movement. Therefore the server simply accelerates you along that previous direction because your current motion vector still has a direction, just zero magnitude, and your client leaves your ‘nose’ pointing in the previous direction of travel as well.

The server sees your ‘nose’ as the direction of travel. Therefore if you are heading towards them you hit them with your ‘nose’. Target ships for this sort of bumping are ships like freighters so there is no meaningful active manoeuvring.
Also POS bowling, was more complex billiards in 3d space yet people did it. I mean ‘oh no, I must practice for a week or two to get this skill’. I don’t think you get how skilled top bumpers actually are at knowing exactly what they are doing, bumping is not skill free.

That’s not correct either.
The reality is, that when you accelerate without an order, your client translates what it perceives as your alignment into the “approach a point in space” direction.
You don’t have only a “go 100%” order ; you have two orders, a “approach this point” and “set max speed to 100%”.

Yeah no. Because if it was an approach this point then it would stop when you reached that point.
It says 'My current movement vector is xyz direction and 0 magnitude. Turn magnitude to 100% while maintaining xyz vector.
However, shut up Anderson. At this point you are just arguing to be correct and have gone so far past the point into pure spam. And don’t bother replying to me directly any more on this thread or quoting me. Just use the general reply.

Try it. When you set max speed, it says “approach a point in space”. Double click, it says the same.

No, you shut up. You are wrong, stop saying shut up when I correct your mistakes.
Your personal attacks are just you being too proud to acknowledge your mistakes.

Are you using translation software or is your English that off? Your English comprehension is definitely a problem here and I hate to say it, as you are forced to use my language, but its true. It explains a lot.

How in Bob’s name could there NOT be a previous direction of movement???

That is NOT what is happening to me. I kill the throttle, my alignment drifts, and then I hit the throttle and travel with my new alignment on a new vector.

Actually I do know the skill it takes to do just normal bumping and how skilled bumpers are. Its you acting like they can do three times as much. They can’t.

Gate jump?

Pretty much all other instances of a ship at 0 m/s have previous movement.

Tried it. Moved in line with the ship model.

Seems from that case that a ship gets assigned a random direction, even at a velocity of 0. And that the ship model follows that direction.

So yes, there always is a direction for the ship.

I’m not sure whether it is useful for the game to assign a ‘nose’ of the ship for gameplay purposes, but it should be possible.

Nope.
you can look in the general direction of your ship alignment when it is cloaked. Then show dscan, 5°, show dscan cone ; the north is the numbers whose bottom are towards the center.

Then you’ll realize where you are wrong.

Your client always shows a direction, but the server does not know of such one.
So no, in terms of mechanism, there is no direction for the ship. It’s only a graphical artifact.

I think the actual relevant point to the discrepancy between server and client (and the client assigning the direction of movement based on player action, not the server storing a set ship orientation) is that a bumper’s client may display a different ship orientation for a stationary player ship vs what the stationary player’s client displays - because this graphical data is not synchronized with the server - so when a bumper hits a stationary ship the ship’s alignment toward its ‘nose’ as rendered on the graphic will not be consistent between clients.

Once the ship is in motion, though, its vector should be consistent across client and server - and at that point, establishing a ‘zone’ relative to the vector that is ‘hot’ for impacts would be feasible.

But I am pretty sure all it takes to make it pointless to try and force a third-party suspect action is keeping safeties to green. Most freighter and orca pilots do this by default to avoid accidents anyway. So what does the server do if you cannot go suspect when green safety but are on a collision path? Unless you remove collision mechanics at that point, you still have people bump - and no change vs present functionality has occurred.

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Good question.

My answer would be that you just can’t go suspect because if the suggested rule where a ship set to green safety cannot be piloted to exceed a certain velocity is in place, then its obvious the ship did not exceed that velocity on its own power ie the bump was likely not intentional.

I know that now the point will be brought up that someone could potentially bump a middle ship which then gets to bump the victim for free, but that seems so impractical that just letting them try seems OK.

All that seems to eliminate any need for concern about bumping a victim to become FY. If their safety is set to yellow and it happens to them, tough. Keep it set to green if your situational awareness is on the level of AFK, or you are actually AFK.

But why limit ship velocity when safeties are green? There are far more use cases for traveling at high speeds in high sec that do not involve direct interaction with other players than there are that involve bumping actions. It’s an oversized restriction for a very narrow area of potential conflict.

That will depend on how the numbers work out. For many and probably most ships, it may actually mean no changes at all. A proper bumping ship is a specially chosen hull and is specially fit for bumping and travels at velocities and with momentums that are highly unusual…or so I believe.

The velocity allowed would be determined by the momentum limit set. I cannot see a frigate, no matter how over-propped, to ever exceed a reasonable momentum limit.

This is where the idea bogs down for me. Who defines reasonable, and what are the criteria for such? How well do the settings scale across ship classes? Is it even possible to scale them without killing unrelated gameplay, like ships configured for making deep safes?

you mean machs usually don’t fit MWD ?

No. I mean (and could be wrong) that someone who intends to bump in a mach will do more than just fit an MWD to make it fast.

When I said “specially fit for bumping” did you think I meant just add an MWD? Dude, if your English is that bad please start taking lessons or something. This is getting ridiculously tiresome.

CCP obviously. Its part of the reason why I am not going to go gung-ho crunching numbers and doing all the work to answer your other questions.

The other part is the simple fact that I could set an absolutely perfect plan and it would be completely ignored…not rejected for a reason…just ignored.

Right. Because we have been given ample reason to trust CCP to be aware of all the ways people are playing the game and what impact their changes will have.

Oh wait…