CCP/Pearl Abyss

It shouldn’t be too hard for them to realize that the decline in player count started to happen at the exact same time they let @CCP_Rattati start implementing his “all sticks and no carrots” plan for EVE.

Maybe they can start another FPS project and let him go fail at that like he failed at DUST 514 before they inflicted him on the EVE playerbase.


Sounds like you’re a bit out of touch with the contemporary gaming market, because “listening to the community” would entail turning the game into a true F2P cooperative PvE grinder with instanced gameplay powered by gacha loot box sales.

What has the community been mostly asking for over the past, say, decade and a half (gaming wasn’t so mainstream until the end of the aughts)? The number one request has been getting rid of the game’s element of non-consensual PvP. The number two request has been getting more and bigger rewards for grinding PvE. The number three request has been to completely get rid of these “pay to win” subscription fees.

There’s a reason why mobile games make more in a day than the entire PC MMO industry makes in a year. It’s because they give the people what they want.


They’re just going to pretend it never happened, that works for corporate media.


You’ve said this before but TBH this is just you being a lazy reader. Your account is about 9 months old IIRC, so you’ve missed 2 decades of posting.

Even right now, of the first 20 topics in General, half of them are on specific issues, with many specific posts on what’s wrong and suggestions to fix. Posters differ in their opinions of course but it’s not due to lack of detail of “vague generic Eve is dying” posts.

You may be running into an inability to differentiate good posts from bad ones. Sturgeon’s Law says “90% of everything is crap”. Sadly, this applies to everything from the quality of forum posts to the depth of the talent pool at gaming companies.

Learn to differentiate between the generic complaint posts and the actual problem/solution debates, and not only will you find your details, but you’ll be 5 steps ahead of CCP (who haven’t learned this skill yet either).

Yes indeed…I have missed the fact that people have been whining about Eve ever since it started. Actually, no I haven’t. There was a thread on this very forum not long ago where it was pointed out that the first ‘Eve is dying’ post was just months after Eve started. I think that was in Mike Azariah’s recent presentation.

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It is, of course, your privilege to focus your attention on whiny trash posts. Your original point was that specific, detailed posts of what’s wrong and how to fix it didn’t exist, and they were always “vague generic complaints”.

The posts you requested exist, eg: Filaments require a re-balance .

You’re just choosing to wallow in the trash rather than seek the actually valuable posts. It’s kind of ironic actually, since “nothing exists but vague whiny complaints” is itself a vague whiny complaint.

But hey, you do whatever works for you.

apparently someone missed the memo that a prettier more immersive EVE wouid bring back all the players that left because of stale content and totally ridiculous industry changes.


Well there was a certain person… Lets call them Disk Brubal to protect their identity… Who said that when something is prettier its inherently better, and cited Speed Racer (?) for some reason.


Meh, hyperbole and misinformation, seems to be the only thing Destiny’s got up their sleeve.

2021, mobile revenues around $100 billion, PC/MMO revenues between $30 to $40 billion depending who’s data you’re looking at. So it’s more like 3-to-1 rather than 365-to-1. However by Destiny standards being wrong by only one order of magnitude isn’t bad.

The difference also has a lot more to do with being accessible anywhere at any time and using many small transactions than it has to do with “giving players what they want”.

Destiny’s ranking of the “top 3 requests” is also BS.

  • No sensible game designer cares what players say they want (by volume of requests), they analyze usage patterns to find out what they’re actually doing.
  • In the top 3 would certainly be the whiny high-sec so-called "PvP"ers requests for “more PvP (read ‘ganking’) in high-sec”.
  • If I had a month’s Omega for every time Destiny has claimed to know what all the PvPers, all the miners, all the industry types, all the wardec declarers and avoiders know, do and want, as well as being well-versed in every era and area of the game, I’d plex all my accounts for the next 2 years.

Weird, how somebody with that much knowledge about every aspect of the game gets it wrong all the time. Oh well, bad RNG I guess.


I never did believe that CCP was going under/bankrupt. So much hysteria from a small minority that CCP will close down lol. Thanks for the information @Kezrai_Charzai

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Part of me hopes Eve 1 goes pop and eve 2 starts so we can learn a whole new universe this map has been almost the same for years now, besides poch.

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Even MMO’s like Everquest and Ultima Online are still limping along after all these years. so it’s doubtful that EVE is going to close down any time soon.

But it’s also a fact the number of active accounts has declined by 20% since they decided to let @CCP_Rattati drive players away with his two year nerf crusade and then added a price increase on top of that.

So while EVE isn’t going to be shut down anytime soon, there will also probably never be more people playing the game than there are today.


MMOs in general have declining populations, though only if you look at individual games not as a whole combined population. A lot of gamers will just move from game to game depending on trends, what’s new, exciting expansions, nostalgia, or what not. Every game forum is plagued with the game is dead/dying or posts blaming devs for being out of touch. The simple fact is, they try and focus on catching the attention of these “nomad” players for the hope to get access to their wallets while they stop at New Eden, if they stay great, if not, there are plenty more in the next wave of new players.

Long time players just aren’t as profitable as new players. We either sub for 24 months at a time, or use isk to plex and have already bought skins. So our opinions have less weight in the minds of those calling the shots and telling what the devs, who are often passionate about the game and genuinely want to make it better, should be doing with their time.


ESO has actually started off terribly and been slowly climbing, they are constantly doing content updates thou.

So you got any examples of this? Was it the players that requested Rorq-fest mining, or did CCP do that to boost activity so they could sell the company?

Was it the players that requested selling SP? Or turning Nullsec into Farmville? I’m just wondering which player demands it is that CCP caved to that constitute “a compromise of their values”.

TBH I’m wondering if any CCP ‘values’ can even be identified since they’ve gone back on most promises as well as a fairly long list of greedy, underhanded and disrespectful treatment of the player base.

(Please note: I don’t call trying to turn a profit, or even raising prices, as ‘greedy’. That’s business. Greed is Monoclegate. Greed is “Hey old player, haven’t seen you in 3 years. C’mon back to EVE and for the small sum of $289 US we’ll give you the 12.1 Million SP you missed out on!”. Greed is selling ‘deal packs’ to new players that aren’t deals at all.)

Also, you’ve mentioned the T2 ship pricing as evidence of a “not broken economy” at least twice now. You may not have noticed, but this is due to a huge glut of T2 ships that’s been building for over a year now. Because they’re still being built, but they’re not being sold or flown or destroyed as much.

There’s probably several reasons for this. Fewer players is one. Players engaging less in the content these ships specialize in (a lot of which is PvP) is another. And the kicker is, these ships all require Omega access to fly. Guess what? Fewer subs, fewer Omega ships being flown.

(Plus of course the only reason T2 ship production isn’t “broken” is because CCP cancelled their “fix” for it after seeing the results of the T1 “fix”.)

Now maybe you’re only looking at today’s T2 prices and not seeing these other factors as part of “a broken economy”. Personally I only need to take a look at a couple years worth of MERs and the PCU chart to tell what state the economy’s in.


where did you read that?

Very agreeable points and it can be seen as the population ages in all sorts of mmo’s or at least the ones I had played.

New players and sometimes the older players just want things straight away without the long grind.

Long ago grinding hours to produce an in game item felt both relaxing and rewarding, somene out there if you are able to still feel that feeling I would strongly suggest to hold onto that as that feeling is what mmo’s seem to have lost or losing. Now Pearl Abyss is a South Koren gaming company and to my understanding it will bring even more Koren type grinding New Eden but at the same time offer the easy way out which again is causing the decline in the mmo population.

Sorry to keep ranting but your comment did bring up some extremely important points.

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Don’t misquote me. This time I said it in reference to the fact that we did not have inflation. Which we don’t. And I did go on to say, that I don’t think the economy is in a particularly healthy state. And the first time I said it, it was in reference to guy promoting a conspiracy theory that CCP was intentionally trying to make things cost more to sell more plex.

Also, are you ■■■■■■■ with me, or was what I wrote just that unclear? Look, what I was saying is that I believe that CCP has been compromising on their values in order to appeal to a wider gaming audience.

Speaking of which, players may not have been asking for nullsec to be turned into farmville back in 2016 (iirc), but there sure is ■■■■ an army of guys out there now complaining about extrinsic rewards and everything that interferes with their ability to optimize towards boredom (i.e. ESS/DBS, cloaky camping (not as common a complaint since the changes), scarcity, blackout, drone assist, Fozzieclaw, whaling, and god knows what else). Players may not have asked for it then, but they’re certainly asking for it now. I dunno, but it seems to me like CCP made changes that appealed to particular types of players, which resulted in much large concentrations of those players in the game. And, it seems like the values of a lot of these players stand in stark contrast to other Eve players.

Oh, and apparently we think “broken” means different things, because I think that if the economy was broken, you wouldn’t have to dig through spreadsheets to prove it. I mean, when players of other MMO’s complain about broken economies, they don’t have to point to graphs of the velocity of isk, or even have to do any convincing at all. It’s because the majority of the player base is dealing with things such as it being impossible to buy certain things, massive surpluses resulting in some things being virtually worthless, rampant inflation, and/or the need to adopt alternative currencies. And, we aren’t seeing any of that, not even with capital ships (although, it’s probably not a good sign that people stopped building them).

Now, don’t get it twisted -I am not saying that the economy is all roses. I’m no economist myself, but I have heard more knowledgeable people than me point to things like the velocity of isk and production rates as evidence of problems. So, things could probably be better. But the economy is far from “broken,” and I seriously doubt that it’s in danger of imminent collapse, as some people have asserted every time CCP has made a change that they don’t like (i.e. blackout, scarcity, broker fee changes, and whatever else).


Oh! I know this one! I promise I do!


Seriously now,
Are we positive on the fact that PA is a starting point for the issues, real or speculative?
I honestly think most issues started before that. I too felt sort of relieved knowing PA was letting CCP handle EVE business as usual… but sometimes I think it would have been better if not.

Real or speculative.