CCP: Please add a covert scanner for data/relic sites


(Khara Vaya) #1

I’d like to see a tech 2 cargo scanner specifically for covert ops ships only, that allow you to target ONLY data/relic cans and be able to scan what’s inside of them (WITH OUT DECLOAKING) . This should of been done a long time ago in my opinion, as the Covert op ship barely has any use above a SoE ship, such as an Astero, it has minimal defenses, terrible power supply. Let’s buff the Covert Op ships, OR introduce a new Tech 3 Covert Ops frigate that allows you to scan cans with out the need of a cargo scanner, or having to decloak.

This would allow the covert op ships not to be exposed while determining if the risk is worth the reward of getting to a specific can, and getting out of the system being undetected. Lets live up to the name covert ops.


(Khan Wrenth) #2

I’m flabbergasted at the the complete lack of awareness in your post. I mean that both literally and figuratively. If you’re in a COVOPS ship, you have all the time in the world to be perfectly safe while cloaked, while you mentally do risk assessments for a site. You have multiple tools at your disposal to assess the local dangers, including local (and by proxy, color tags and killboard websites).

There’s no need for anything like that in this game. Last I checked, cargo scanners have immensely more range than scrams, so just uncloak at a distance while aligned, scan, warp out at any sign of trouble. Like, there’s nothing about this that is so difficult that it warrants a buff. And you’d STILL be vulnerable while hacking it anyway so your desired buff wouldn’t even have the effect you want.


(Khara Vaya) #3

I’m flabbergasted at the fact that you’re flabbergasted, literally and figuratively. As someone who has been competent in hacking since 2009 when I first started eve, I’ve been through it all I’ve been through it all literally. The only profession I’ve ever done in eve is hacking, literally. So when I make a suggestion it’s not off the cuff of course I know about zkillboard checking for explorer hunters, using local chat to see who is in the system, d-scan if in a wh or null to see positions of players. I know all of this, what I am recommending here is a tool that allows you scan data/relic cans while staying cloaked. Like you said it would still make you vulnerable at the end, so in your own words you proved my reasoning behind this. You can’t hack cloaked, but it would be nice to have another tool for a covert op ship which is sub par to a SoE ship in almost every aspect besides 5 more strength and 7.5% less scan strength which makes up for it massive damage, and healing ability and is essentially the best exploration ship in the game.

I feel covert ops are needing love and I made this idea.


(Gadget Helmsdottir) #4

Dearest OP,

A) This is General Discussion, not Player Features & Ideas.
B) It sounds like you’re giving advice that would effect a profession that you do not understand.

C) Play as the hunter for a few weeks* and then revisit your idea.

–Cloaked Gadget camping this thread

*or months really


(Nikea Tiber) #5

So what you are saying is you want even less risk?

Shouldn’t you have a few exit plans in advance at this point in your career?

Edit:
Let me add

“I would like to see a counter to those individuals…”

It already exists, it is called making some changes to your astero fit, or flying a stratios instead and defending yourself. With the changes to covert t3cs, they are a strong option as well now.


(Khara Vaya) #6

Dearest Replier:

A) Regardless of the forum I posted to, doesn’t take away from the suggestion.
B) Giving advice on a profession I don’t understand? I’ve been hacking relic cans and data cans for 8 years straight. I’ve amassed over 350 billion isk from hacking, I understand it very clearly.

C) I have played as the hunter on multiple occassions, 90% of ships are either Tech 1, or SoE, not covert so my idea would have no barring on this, even though the point your trying to make has no merit, catching an explorer is one of the easiest things to do in eve besides afk.


(Khara Vaya) #7

Correct, even less risk and more utility for individuals choosing to fly covert ops, over Tech 1 or Sisters of Eve ships, It would be unique to covert op ships only. Bring back the need to fly a covert ops, versus the want to fly covert ops.

No other profession, risks more reward then an explorer while having such a disadvantage, covert ops frigates are so incredibly weak and can not defend themselves even against a tech 1 exploration frigate, that has the ability to have drones. Trust me I’ve been doing this a lot longer then most of you’ve been playing eve.

I’ve endured personal attacks on this thread, while mainly passive aggressive they were still attacks, how about discussing the topic at hand versus the whole “this is eve” get used to it, blah blah blah.

Allowing a covert ops ship which I bet if you checked the analytics get used 10 times less then any other exploration frigate out there, a special tool to scan cans cloaked, is not going to ruin your exploration hunting.

Nice killboard by the way, pretty apparent which side you’re on and why.


(Khara Vaya) #8

I’m not talking about Astero’s or Stratios or Tech 1 Frigates, I’m not sure you even read this topic to be honest.

Covert Ops ships only module that allows you to scan cans while cloaked.


(Nikea Tiber) #9

This character was created 11 years ago.
I know the combat and gtfo capabilities of covops frigates rather intimately considering I used to fly them when I was in Noir. SoE ships didn’t exist yet so covops frigates were the only option for a combat scanner. Yeah, they have the tank of an overinflated balloon but they are cheap and have good on grid mobility. Hero tackle is usually optional when you are punting inties, but hot gates are always fun. There are still plenty of reasons to fly covops frigates vs soe/t1 scan frigs.

Someone waiting to gank you in a site is likely to have already scanned the containers for the one you are likely to hack and will be posted up within web/scram range of your orbit, anyhow.
Traps with good bait tend to catch juicier quarry.

I’m not trying to insult you, but you seem to be seriously risk averse, the long term player base isn’t going to be enthusiastic about your ideas.

There are already existing in game approaches that accomplish what you are suggesting. A covops frigate is usable as a explo. ship, but it is admittedly risky. If you want less risk, spend more isk to secure your loot?
Be honest with me, after 8 years is the loss of a covops frigate still a big deal?
Personally, I feel the low ehp is a reasonable tradeoff for the scan bonuses and on and off grid mobility.


(Khara Vaya) #10

Covert Op ships are not expensive, this is correct and the loss of one is not detrimental but covert op ship are not unique since the introduction of SoE ships which out gun, out tank and out explore a covert ops ship.

My idea wasn’t brought out of necessity because of the tremendous amount of losses, It was out of the need to make the covert op’s ships unique again, and have an actual reason to use them versus the tech 1 variant and the SoE Variant both of which are better and the ship bonus for the covert ops is nothing in the long run compared to the damage and tank and ability to remove a covert ops from the field with a Heron or a Astero versus a Buzzard.

My idea was to bring something unique to the covert ops ship, the idea of having a scanners unique to the covert ops ships that let them scan relic/data cans cloaked, just feels like it would be something up the ally of what a true covert op ship could do.

Does it prevent dying? No, but it does something no other ship does in the game currently, and I’m an innovator. There is very few things that would make sense to a covert ops ship to make it more unique then a cargo scanner that lets you scan while cloaked.


(Coralas) #11

What a covops does is certainly worth discussing, but imo that bonus idea is not good.

Covops has roles the astero is less intended for, which is scouting grouped player enemies - hence higher potential combat probe bonus and the moon probing bonus, which is a good time saver if you have to do it, and its cheaper than an astero, which is the right positioning for something you might run through a camp for combat related purposes.

I’d prefer another bonus more associated with a combat avoiding scout to gather invasion or other pvp relevant info (but not immunity to bubbles because there are enough things that do that already).


(Nikea Tiber) #12

Covops frigates still have a huge role/use for pvp. Between scan duration reduction and high base warp speed they are ideal scout vehicles that work in conjunction with interceptors (the other relatively cheap t2 frigate) as scouts and initial tackle for small gangs or larger fleets.
It is a good fleet position to use to learn to FC and plan roams, as well. IMO, combat probing is a lot more fun than probing out sites, but as any experience, results may vary.

I like that you are actively looking for more roles for covops frigates to fill. Even with the proposed module, wouldn’t you say you are still just as likely to die to a smartbomb near a gate?


(Nora Maldoran) #13

tl;dr:
I agree that Covert Ops need something to be unique and worth flying (again).
I don’t think a scanner usable while cloaked is the way to do it.

I would not recommend this, as you only slow down yourself in the site. You will show yourself longer on DScan and give more time to a hunter to setup his trap.

I don’t think @Gadget_Helmsdottir Helmsdottir was referring to the profession of the explorer.

Remember that there are alts or kills just not being posted. A killboard barely tells you the whole story.


Now on topic:
I agree that the SoE ships made Covert Ops more or less “obsolete”. At least for my style of exploration, where I usually hack sites myself but also try to kill contestants.
And I think Covert Ops Frigates could need something to make them worth flying over an Interceptor (when it comes to travel speed) or flying cloaked (T3C, SoE).

Personally I never used cargo scanners on exploration fits. I love the surprise too much when you see the net worth of your loot.
And I don’t think you should be able to do that cloaked. It would make the game for Hunters much harder - as you are no longer predictable what can you might hack next.

So in the end you would force people sitting cloaked at the site to attack you immidiatly after you started hacking the first can. It would become common practice of experienced hunters and your andvantage would be gone again.

But what I would love to see is to give them some offensive capabilities. E.g. by simply giving them back their drone bay they lost while being upgraded from T1 to T2. You wouldn’t be able to fight back when getting ganked - you are just too squishy, but you could try to gank someone yourself by just gambling on the moment of surprise.

edit: typos


(Remiel Pollard) #14

[quote=“Khara_Vaya, post:1, topic:10749, full:true”]
I would like to see a counter to those individuals who lurk in sites just to kill explorers…[/quote]

There are already plenty of those. Couldn’t tell you how many cloaky stealth bombers fit with rockets I’ve blown up by warping on them at 0 with a PVP frigate instead of my scanning one first to scout the site I want to hack.


(JC Mieyli) #15

there are plenty of counters
weapons
ewar
alts
friends


(Memphis Baas) #16

A covert cargo scanner would require a covert target lock, because everything in EVE functions on the principle of “target lock first.” Do you realize how powerful a covert target lock would be? And how nice suicide ganking would be with the ability to target lock while cloaked + scan cargo while cloaked + alpha strike or tackle straight out of cloak (because there would be no targeting delays since the target is already covert-locked)?


(Khara Vaya) #17

I understand that not everyone has time to read especially in 2017 but in this case it would do you wonders. It was a cargo scanner that lets you scan scatter cans ONLY and in data/relic sites only. I was very clear about this. You wouldn’t need a covert locking mechanism it would be built into the new covert ops builds, but it wouldn’t let you target people while cloaked, just scatter cans. You’re thinking far too literal and not enough sci-fi. This bonus to covert ships to lock cans and scan them with out decloaking is not far fetched.

I think the idea is great, and yes I am bias because I thought of it, but at the end of the day I’ve heard a dozen worse ideas.


(Khara Vaya) #18

The vast majority of eve explorers, are solo players and that’s why they enjoy the profession it doesn’t require other people, or pvp skills in order to enjoy. In fact if you follow the mastery skill path for exploration and fit the ships how the game intended, you’re looking at a max 25 dps with max skills on a covert ops ship.

Explain to me how a covert ops ship can use weapons or ewar? You really expect a covert ops operators friends to follow them hundres of jumps through the galaxy to protect them 24/7? That’s a joke. As far as alts are concerned, that’s not something that should even come into a balance aspect of this game as MOST players are not running around with multiple accounts.


(JC Mieyli) #19

well alts are your friends
they should be stuck together in the same category
but yeah its all perfectly good counters
i mean its a sandbox you cant just train a mastery and expect to be the best in the game
you gotta think outside the box a bit
so like i can teach you to survive in a covert ops ship
watch local
stay aligned if possible
and here is a really good trick especially in wh space
dont set your dscan to maximum range
set it to a much lower range


(Gadget Helmsdottir) #20

Citations, please.

–Intrigued Gadget