CCP, PLEASE Turn All Bounties (And Especially Loyalty Points) Into Red/Blue/Whatever Loot

[Vladimmire]

This is supposed to be a sandbox, where we can all choose how to spend our time. IRL I have been a professional commodities trader for over 20 years. The absolute last thing I want to do with my free time is stare at more spreadsheets and market screens. I have avoided industry, regional trading and station trading like the plague. Countless people have made billions off of me over the years because F sell orders, just let me hit the bid and get out of the market screen. I’ve made all of my isk in space either killing something or having people chase me while I make isk.

Recently though, I have moved to faction warfare (excellent job on revamping this over the last year or so by the way) and I am now forced into my most hated of tasks of converting LP through spreadsheets and markets. Please turn LP into Green loot that we can sell for isk. People can then turn around and buy from the LP stores whatever they want, and if they wish, can get into market transactions. DON’T FORCE A PLAY STYLE DOWN OUR THROATS.

At the same time, there should be no straight to your wallet isk injections. Just like a DED runner with high end modules, or a miner with his minerals, there should be risk in moving your acquired gains from where you got it to where you monetize it. It’s worked just fine for blue and red loot for years. All I’m asking for is equal parity for bounties and loyalty points.

At the same time, you’ll revitalize small gang null sec activity as there will be more of an incentive to kill all of the Frat bots null sec anomaly runners. Win win.

[Nicen_Jehr]

I am now forced into my most hated of tasks of converting LP through spreadsheets and markets

no, that’s a personal choice… maybe you’re unaware that people buy LP? personally I just sit on mine until I need a new implant

[Vuhdo_Rin]

@Vladimmire

Please turn LP into Green loot that we can sell for isk.

no ! why ? because next quote …

@Vladimmire

People can then turn around and buy from the LP stores whatever they want,

if you sell it for an amount that CCP set to an NPC order then you will crash the LP market !
if you sell it directly to other ppl then it will become a high value trade item like ISK ! this will crash the LP market aswell because some ppl will build up a stockpile on every LP they can find and all prices for LP store items will rais !

@Vladimmire

At the same time, there should be no straight to your wallet isk injections.

this is a point i would agree with ! kill all direct payment for bounty´s and create loot ! btw … CCP does not need to create loot we already have some kind of this → dog tags or the ESS ISK tokens ! i´m agree that it could reduce botting because ppl need to sell their stuff and its possible to lose your hard earned isk on the way to sell it !

its also a possible way of isk sink ! because if you sell this tokens or dog tags to an NPC order then you need to pay your sales taxes !

but at the end, for a logical point of view this does not make sense because your ship can transmit the data of the rat youre killed to concord imedetly so concord can the transmit the ammount of isk they owe you.

[Anthony_FatTony_Amico]

@Vladimmire

I have been a professional commodities trader for over 20 years. The absolute last thing I want to do with my free time is stare at more spreadsheets and market screens.

Wait wait wait… Hold up. YOU DON’T KNOW THE EXCEL MEME OF EVE ONLINE?

The Microsoft Excel add-in is coming! | EVE Online

CCP Already added it LOL. THEY CONFIRMED THE MEME LOL.

You are super oblivious if you didn’t know this game has an entire side meme called SPREADSHEETS ONLINE I knew this from day 1! I don’t need to be a commodities trader to know that?? I am just shocked really.

You of all people should feel at home here. There is a reason why this game can even be considered a business simulator in many aspects. PVP/PVE are just things tacked on to give the average joe something to do after their 9-5.

[Namdor]

So just cash out datacores, then?

[Aisha_Katalen]

@Vladimmire

I am now forced into my most hated of tasks of converting LP through spreadsheets and markets

No you’re not. You just choose to, to min max.

[ISD_Drew]

moved to Player Features & Ideas - EVE Online Forums

[Rail_J_kar]

@Vladimmire

Please turn LP into Green loot that we can sell for isk.

LP stores function as isk sinks, so they shouldn’t be able to be sold to npc buy orders for isk.

If however, by “green” loot, you mean they’re merely tokens to be traded on the market to other players, who can then trade them to the relevant lp store vender for lp, then I support the effort.

@Vladimmire

At the same time, there should be no straight to your wallet isk injections.

@Vladimmire

It’s worked just fine for blue and red loot for years. All I’m asking for is equal parity for bounties and loyalty points.

It’s fine in theory, but you also need to recognize there wont ever be parity, because red/blue loot activities tend to be high risk / high reward activities. It’s fine for there to be lower risk / lower reward activities. In fact, I’d say it’s a necessity, because good game design requires there to be a progression of the risk / reward metric in order to onboard players into more challenging content.

We can quibble about where those thresholds are, and what content should be subjected to what thresholds, but those thresholds should exist at every risk/reward level.

@Vuhdo_Rin

its also a possible way of isk sink ! because if you sell this tokens or dog tags to an NPC order then you need to pay your sales taxes !

That’s not really an isk sink, you’re just reducing the amount of the faucet. It’s functionally the same thing (an embedded isk sink within the faucet) but definitions matter. And the important matter at hand, is holistically, ratting is a faucet, not a sink.

It also wouldn’t fly, because the null blocks (ie: CSM) would complain, and then the bounties would be adjusted to account for the sales tax, placing the effective level where it was before. Thus nullifying your embedded isk sink entirely.

You’ll also run into the issue of needing to turn those tokens in. Unless ccp gives alliances a way to turn them in locally (perhaps at the ess,) people would have to cart them back to empire to get their bounty payments. And people who live in npc null would be straight out of luck. In other words, null blocks (ie: CSM) wouldn’t support the effort.

[Dark_Lord_Trump]

So what happens to corp ratting taxes?

[Vuhdo_Rin]

@Rail_J_kar

It’s fine for there to be lower risk / lower reward activities.

but your low risk low reward doesnt match actual ! you can easy create 300m/h with HS missions with very low risk and this 24/7 if you want ! its not possible with blue loot … maybe possible with red loot but abyss are not that risky … only if you dont know what you do or have a bad internet conection !

@Rail_J_kar

And the important matter at hand, is holistically, ratting is a faucet, not a sink.

who the ■■■■ talks about ratting as an isk sink oO the taces for selling tokens are the isk sink ! exactly the same isk sink as if you would sell blue loot or red loot !

@Rail_J_kar

It also wouldn’t fly, because the null blocks (ie: CSM) would complain, and then the bounties would be adjusted to account for the sales tax, placing the effective level where it was before. Thus nullifying your embedded isk sink entirely.

is this happen as the ESS got changes to its actual system ? you as small ratting char lose ISK because you dont get the payout of the reserve bank ! …

nobody would complain about the tax xD they would complain about the whole system and why they now need to loot and move their loot to an NPC station to sell it ! they dont get their ISK asap …

tax dont care because most of the ratters wouldnt mind that they need to pay a small amount of taxes !

@Rail_J_kar

You’ll also run into the issue of needing to turn those tokens in. Unless ccp gives alliances a way to turn them in locally (perhaps at the ess,) people would have to cart them back to empire to get their bounty payments. And people who live in npc null would be straight out of luck. In other words, null blocks (ie: CSM) wouldn’t support the effort.

but the problem is not that you now need to fly to HS because you can easy create an HS char and you can sell the tokens with this ! you maybe can see that the problem is not transport or selling or anything else ! the real problem why nullsec wouldnt accept it is, that they dont get their ISK in their well known 20m intervall

if you could change such tokens in the ESS then its worthless to create such tokens … there were no risk increase !

@Dark_Lord_Trump

what happens to corp ratting taxes?

thats a reason it never will be implementet !

LP for tokens are a bad idea because it has big possebility to crash the whole LP market !
Bountys for tokens were a better idea and i would apriciate to see this but there are many problems with it, one reason are corp taxes !

[Rail_J_kar]

@Vuhdo_Rin

you can easy create 300m/h with HS missions

Even if that’s correct, you’re going to need an expensive ship to do it. And running a solo marauder in highsec isn’t exactly low risk. The mission content might be, but the real danger is from other players.

@Vuhdo_Rin

who the ■■■■ talks about ratting as an isk sink

@Vuhdo_Rin

its also a possible way of isk sink ! because if you sell this tokens or dog tags to an NPC order then you need to pay your sales taxes !

Don’t blame me, you’re the one you said it.

@Vuhdo_Rin

nobody would complain about the tax xD they would complain about the whole system and why they now need to loot and move their loot to an NPC station to sell it ! they dont get their ISK asap …

Null blocks and players would complain about lower ratting income. Meaning CCP would likely set the net income to be the same as it was before, thus nullifying your talk of an isk sink.

@Vuhdo_Rin

he problem is not that you now need to fly to HS because you can easy create an HS char and you can sell the tokens with this

And how are you going to get the tokens to highsec?

@Vuhdo_Rin

if you could change such tokens in the ESS then its worthless to create such tokens … there were no risk increase !

Agreed… in part. I specifically mentioned the ess, because it would be the most risky option within the alliance holding. Other options would be to turn it into the territorial claim unit, or into an agent in one of your Alliance’s stations. Which would be practically no additional risk (other than just getting caught while ratting, which I think was part of the incentive for the OP.)

@Vuhdo_Rin

@Dark_Lord_Trump

what happens to corp ratting taxes?

thats a reason it never will be implementet !

Corps could collect taxes upon the sale of the token. Granted, the tokens could be traded to an alt in a tax shelter corp, that are then sold, but if you’re willing to hurt your corp that way, you probably wont be with them for long.

@Vuhdo_Rin

LP for tokens are a bad idea because it has big possebility to crash the whole LP market !

hmm… I think what’s more likely to happen, is high end items (like navy dreads and mods) would crash. Low end things like navy frigs, destroyers and ammo probably wont be too affected.

I would expect the average lp to isk conversation rate would be down around 500 or less, if someone wants to just cash out the lp directly with tokens.

[Vuhdo_Rin]

@Rail_J_kar

you’re going to need an expensive ship to do it. And running a solo marauder in highsec isn’t exactly low risk.

it does not need to be super shiney so no, you dont need an very expensive ship and the risk to get ganked is extremly low xD if you are scared to be ganked then you have done several things wrong !
your argument is worthless !

@Rail_J_kar

but the real danger is from other players.

like everywhere in eve so … again an worthless argument !

@Rail_J_kar

Don’t blame me, you’re the one you said it.

and you denied it ! and youre wrong because taxes are isk sink ! and if you understand something else then you need to lern reading and undertanding !

@Rail_J_kar

Null blocks and players would complain about lower ratting income.

but they dont have a lowerer ratting income oO and nullblock dudes dont care about the minimalistic taxes ! i have told you why null dont want to have this !

@Rail_J_kar

And how are you going to get the tokens to highsec?

moving to highsec with any ship ? whats your point with this quote ? moving stuff to HS isnt a problem ! and this is not the problem nullsec would have …

@Rail_J_kar

Agreed… in part. I specifically mentioned the ess, because it would be the most risky option within the alliance holding.

no oO its the less risky version because you dont need to haul it to any high or low sec station !

@Rail_J_kar

Other options would be to turn it into the territorial claim unit, or into an agent in one of your Alliance’s stations. Which would be practically no additional risk

this is not an option … if it has the same risk then instant isk on your wallet then it does not make sense to implement it ! and take your stuff to an ESS or TCU is no risk because you can see how many ppl are in local ! if you dont do it and still want to move your billion worth of tokens and you die then youre just stupid !

@Rail_J_kar

Corps could collect taxes upon the sale of the token.

no … why ? because of so many reasons ! thats the worst to collect corp taxes ! because you can easy avoid this !
again a worthless argument …

@Rail_J_kar

hmm… I think what’s more likely to happen, is high end items (like navy dreads and mods) would crash. Low end things like navy frigs, destroyers and ammo probably wont be too affected.

I would expect the average lp to isk conversation rate would be down around 500 or less, if someone wants to just cash out the lp directly with tokens.

i would assume that everything will go up with its price ! why ? because its an easy tradable item and many ppl would build up their stockpile ! this reduces the net ammount of LP in eve and prices increase !

but dont care if prices raise or drop … marked will crash !

[Vladimmire]

If you participate in FW, which is a high risk endeavor, all activities reward LP and no isk. To monetize it, you have to get involved in buying items from the LP store and then hauling and selling on the market. I don’t want to buy stuff, I don’t want to haul large amounts of stuff, and I absolutely don’t want to spend hours and hours of logging in to play market games to liquidate stuff.

Mission runners and null sec ratters don’t have to do this. Wormholers only have to to use a cov ops to find the nearest blue loot station. Same for Abyssal runners with their red loot. None of them have to get involved in market stuff to get their isk. I JUST WANT PARITY.

And no, selling at 60% on the dollar to someone to avoid market interaction is not acceptable. Again, none of the others have to do this.

I want to pvp, thats all. The beauty of FW is that you are being rewarded while pvping.

If you love mining, industry, market stuff…good on you. You were able to choose what you wanted. I want the ability to not participate in those parts of the game.

I’m against it as i feel all renumeration should be at risk, but ok, if you want to just shoot isk into my wallet instead of LP, I’ll take that. Just make LP an option, and don’t force industry/market stuff on us.

CCP, just because you’ve done it this way forever, doesn’t mean its the best mechanism, or that we want it. Do some research, take some polls, w/e you need. I’m pretty sure you will find the majority of us feel this way.

[Vuhdo_Rin]

@Vladimmire

I want to pvp, thats all.

@Vladimmire

I want the ability to not participate in those parts of the game

you have it ! you never need any kind of PvE, Mining or Industry to play this game ! but if you want to get all your isk on PvP loot then its on YOU ! you need to find the good targets … you need to win fights and not to lose fights !

but you want to change the hole system only because you dont want to do this …

[stefnia_Freir]

@Vladimmire

Countless people have made billions off of me over the years because F sell orders, just let me hit the bid and get out of the market screen. I’ve made all of my isk in space either killing something or having people chase me while I make isk.

The issue here, is that broker are not making their job.

@Vladimmire

DON’T FORCE A PLAY STYLE DOWN OUR THROATS.

They don’t. You can totally ignore the LPs.

[Namdor]

@Vladimmire

Mission runners and null sec ratters don’t have to do this. Wormholers only have to to use a cov ops to find the nearest blue loot station. Same for Abyssal runners with their red loot. None of them have to get involved in market stuff to get their isk. I JUST WANT PARITY.

Making sure the loot from every last activity is trivially converted to isk isn’t really a design goal. If you like blue loot that much, you should stick to the activities that offer it.

If you want to cash out quickly with a minimum of hassle, convert your LP to datacores and sell them. It’s not the highest LP conversion around, but it’s consistent and it’s easy and convenience comes with a cost.

[Rail_J_kar]

I suppose datacores effectively function as what the op wants (if we had direct lp trading, the prices would likely be even lower.) He doesn’t seem to want to compromise with the sale price, but that’s how the market works: things that are easier to sell will be cheaper. The more hassle is involved in the sale, the higher the prices will be.