I think the worst is that CCP will lose the occasion to slaughter the fat chicken (goons) when its still edible. If it will pass its edible age, it will die peacefully from old age and nobody will be glad they ate it.
All those tenderizing tricks for meat, all spices, they are all known, just CCP have to take a knife and put it to the chickens neck.
If you make the game harder for goons, it will be MUCH, MUCH harder on everyone else.
The reason is simple: Goons are operating at high effectiveness (not efficiency). They have the organisation and the mindset to exploit the game as much as possible. Other groups just don’t have that.
If the answer to the cap meta is to bring more of them, goons just do it, and they are good at building them. Infact, they are the best at building them. When everyone else celebrates a finished titan, goons try to sell them for cheap in 1DQ because they have troubles finding buyers.
The worst part about all the goon-hate however, is the simple fact that they told you how to do it here: https://imperium.news/alliances-suck-industry/
So, if everyone complains about goons “ruining” the game, the simple reality of the situation is: everyone else just does it wrong (i.e. not as effective). I know that’s a hard pill to swallow, but the only fix to this can come through other players and not CCP.
If Delve is “too save”, make it harder for them. A quick example would be the guy that steals excavators. He even did an AMA on reddit, just incase you have no idea on how to do something like that.
TLDR is: stop whining about it, act on it.
CCP can only make the frame for operation tighter. Goons however, they will simply exploit the new frame to the maximum. That is nothing CCP can fix.
Asset Safety removal would certainly incentivize Citadels as conflict drivers, both for attacker and defender in NS.
Wont matter much in HS/LS since there are several NPC stations to store in.
This is a fallacy.
Wont be harder for anyone, as the same rules apply to everyone.
CCP could also turn all of Delve into Drone country.
I know it might sound like that, but the reality is that goons made their lives considerably easier than everyone else did. So, the saying that “Goons, on average, are more safe than let’s say Hordies” has practical truth. Just that it’s not a mechanics thing as specified by the frame of operation (which is defined by CCP) and instead, it’s an organisational thing (as goons excell at organizing the best possible subframe).
In short: Goons made a big effort to create an environment of relative safety within the harshness of new Eden. If you make it harder for them, they will adapt. Everyone else couldn’t achieve a comparable environment of comparable safety, hence they will struggle more with adapting to any change that will affect Goons.
All changes apply to all of EVE.
How anyone adapts to change, is up to them, but does not preclude change.
Well, in my opinion it doesn’t matter wht kind of changes CCP will make to EVE, as long as the players won’t stand up against Goons, they will adapt and continue with their NS live.
CCP should make Delve to Drone Region? Well, Goons will pack up their stuff and settle in another Region, that’s how EVE works. And Goons have the power to do it.
The NS isn’t controlled by CCP, it’s controlled by the players living there.
@Topic:
You said that Relic-Sites in WH only drops 30 Mio? Try bigger Womholes, or make those combat relic sites, they drop a decent amount of blue loot and the relic/data stuff. I’m living in a wormhole and I would say I make enough ISK here.
Pretty much this, for the most part.
It’s basically the same with people who are still asking for less profits on anoms and less respawn of ore. It’s over, the profits have been made. There is simply no catching up, unless suddenly a force twice the size of Goons would emerge and do the same. Shutting these faucets down now, will only cement Goons advantage. So people who ask for this to happen on behalf of “the rest of the game” are not seeing it clearly.
Alas, there are ways to shake up things, but those would need to introduce entirely new pillars of power.
Just in short: pillar of power is of course the form of organization and the mass of people. Opportunities to mine and rat for 15 Tril a month each, are other such pillars. If CCP wanted to open things up a bit, they’d need to come up with 2-3 new pillars of power, similar to ISK and minerals, in such a way that large group-size does not offer advantage over small groups.
For instance one could come up with objectively influential stuff A and B that can only be acquired with constantly moving around the entire map on short notice (as in 1 hour). Of course stuff A and B would need to fulfill a powerful purpose, possession of it would need to be highly influential on the core gameplay, just as ISK and minerals are. In that way you’d not need to “make it worse” for Goons, but actually create new incentives for a gameplay that is quite different from state-building settlement. We had both at the same time then, with the latter better fitting into the playstyle of smaller groups and capital force projection not being as much of an issue.
Yes, but the individual outcomes vastly differ (as evident by the status Quo). CCP can only make the game harder for everyone, but goons will make it as easy as it possibly can be within the new rules. Other groups have not achieved the same results, so it’s perfectly reasonable to assume they will suffer more from any change CCP might do. Based on the evidence (of how goons got fought, retreated and emerged as the strongest force in New Eden), I would say it’s evident.
I want to make it easier for people using subcaps that could dispatch large amounts of caps and then rob what drops from citadels. Removing iconic null sec wealth with a blaze of exploding bombs. And the end could come from wormholes, low sec and high sec simultanously.
Yeah, CCP could do something like that, but with the sheer size of these groups, the chances are high that Goons will just exploit the new “Pillar” better than everyone else does.
Hence, I have very little faith in any solution that involves CCP. It’s on players to fix this. As for the “Catching up to goons”: While the profits have indeed been made, other coalitions had their opportunity to make them too. The question is: did goons catch up to the rest of the universe in terms of combined power?
Combined power really is the one thing that can stop goons (World War Bee), if they outpower most of the combined forces of the rest of New Eden, well then there really is little players can do. All indicators say they didn’t (Northern Allies still have a Supercap fleet that can match goonies, and then there is TEST). Of course, time is running out, but then again: Goons mocking the universe for 6+ months, no conflict brought to them (they started the northern conflict…).
Its not that I like to remove goons, I want to see Barbarians in Rome, taking what they want and then burning the rest, coming back with loot to their huts then spending it on exotic dancers and drinking Chanounian Wine.
Well, I would like to avoid the Fate of Serenity, where it’s one Big Power Bloc that easily outmuscles everyone at anytime. I don’t think we have much to worry, as, from what I know, Goons don’t want that either (and I think they are too clever for that too), but we will see what happens with the north.
I can see them claiming Deklein and maybe offer some northern space to Test after GoTG has been burned, but time will tell if it goes that far.
All that is evident, is that each change affects everyone.
It’s also evident that individuals vastly differ in their reaction towards change. Again, from a pure mechanical standpoint, you are absolutely right. I have not disputed that. You just neglect that every change causes reactions from players, which is what my point is all about.
So, sorry, unless you can actually argue about the point that has been made, I feel there is nothing you can contribute to this discussion?
You are, again, confusing objective change by CCP, with subjective reaction by players.
A lot of people are completely missing the point. I don’t really care about goons one way or the other, and it isn’t about whether goons will end up ‘doing it better than everyone else’ due to their organization if changes happen. Who cares?
The point is simply risk/reward, and you could also throw other things out there like difficulty/reward, convenience/reward, etc. For instance, not only are wormholes more risky than sov null, they are more difficult, and less convenient, so there should be a ‘premium’ paid there too.
Now, if changes are made, and goons thrive in the new Eve - great, fantastic, I wish them the best. The point here isn’t to nerf goons, it’s to make the game better. If goons hate the better game, who cares? And if they love and thrive in the new game, more power to them, and I wish them well!
Is that so hard to comprehend?
If Pandemic Legion could, I am sure they would develop a plague that would decimate Imperium forces and then basically everyone, as their dying wish. Especially vector of virulence would be directed against Titans and Citadels. World would suffer.
Not really. This kind of thing shouldn’t put Goons or any other Null group at an artificial disadvantage, but they couldn’t use their capital projection or group-size to gain the advantage here. Small groups with high individual skill and great coordination, who are able to move around the map in under an hour are the ones who would profit. No reason to believe that groups within Goons wouldn’t manage to adapt to that, but not the entire Alliance. Same for other larger, more static blocks.
There are two different things here. One is what I propose, which doesn’t go against Goons or Null-blocks, but which offers incentives to smaller groups. The other is that some people want to fight Goons. Well, to the latter I can only say: invade Delve if you wanna. It’s that simple.
Hard to say, but also not interesting for everyone. Personally I don’t care much about which huge state has more power, as it doesn’t change the lack of incentives for people who want the game to be about something else. Goons may have catched up, partly thanks to the old powers practically driving people to join Goons, partly thanks to how Goons are happy to farm and partly how they turned out to do some PVP after all, after they had the economic power to do so in a manner that doesn’t endanger their efforts.
Yup. Some people simply don’t like the new “win conditions” as some PL guy stated. I can understand that. Others want to have the economic power of Goons, but they can’t and don’t want to copy the type of organization necessary. I’m not sure if Goons could be beaten by an invasion of Delve, but it’s probably the only way to try if people want that. I don’t see the organization who could come up with that though. At this point the people should be happy that Goons are doing something, because otherwise everyone would just be extremely bored. So let’s hope that all the mocking will motivate people to do something interesting themselves.
It’s not hard to comprehend at all, no. It’s just that people have different opinions. I for one think that it’s a low hanging fruit to complain about Nullsec isk/hr. Yes, it can be higher than everywhere else, but the only true outliers are moon mining and Supercarrier ratting.
A rorqual doesn’t mine that much, it’s just that it’s easily scalable. If you could run 10 Mission runners in Highsec at the same time, you could make a billion per hour too. Or do Incursions (as another example).
You also neglect (and I mean absolutely) the effort that is put in to maintain the space (continually). So, your vibe is the vibe of a horrendously biased, stupid (from your ship choice as example) and entitled soloplayer brat. I think you’ve chosen to not earn isk voluntarily, so I am not sympathic with your idea and I just prefer to have semi-intelligent discussions.