Im at a complete loss of what you refer to as additional “Pillars of Power”.
What do you mean?
Can you give 3 examples?
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I am proposing Pillar of Vlad virus.
Each time goons drop caps, PL comes and sprays it with virulent cloud so it all degrades into dust.
More numbers with more HP, more effective it is. Black death of EVE.
Yet in such situation those who get hurt the worst are the smaller, weaker, less prepared.
The thing is, whatever you do to harm the big guys, they can avoid it by spliting into 1,000 smaller guys.
I already had some ideas, related to the “new space” that was to come with player built jumpgates, to split that space in areas by the size of the entities in them.
The new space would have mighty NPCs who would only “tolerate” a certain degree of capsuleer presence. “Small” systems would have aggressive NPCs, so a small entity coud fill the gap the NPCS would tolerate yet any attempt to develop further would be met with overhwelming opposition. That would also protect the entity from meddlers, as any attacking fleet would be targetted by the NPCs and then obliterated. Conversely, “tolerant” NPCs would allow to develop a lot more, more structures, more people in system, but would be open to player interference without triggering lethal NPC reaction.
So this is a way in which CCP could create new environments for different sized entities. Problem? First to reach a “small” system would own it, and then Goons would rush to colonize the smaller systems to have a beachhead from which fight for the larger ones.
EVE rewards organization and cooperation. And the only time when Goons were out-organized and out-cooperated by overwhelming force, CCP’s decissions stopped it dead and saved the Goons.
Then, instead of opening new opportunites outside fo null PvP, CCP just opened full the rewards faucet for Null… and here we are.
Yeah, I could imagine some ways this could work. Absolutely, like opening new space that collapses after being harvested (so there is no region where goons could move to harvest the new goods), kind of “the abyss” approach. “Deepspace pockets leading to unstable something where you can find this new source of power exclusively”.
The question would be: what should it bee? The anti-capital weapon of doom in form of highly dense minerals? PvE? Yeah, could work, but then again: with their sheer size, they could probably cover more space than everyone else could, so I would guess it would become an arms race which benefits the more massive Alliance again… 
I don’t think small groups are the answer tbh. With all their organization (think of camping the north), goons would do pretty well too. If they can form 10 big fleets for a single timer, they can probably form a couple hundred smaller ones too. I mean, incentivizing smaller groups is nice, but I don’t think it’s the solution.
As for fighting goons, well: go for it.
Well, I think that the state of huge power blocs defines the game for the rest of the players too. Smaller groups had it significantly easier without the current capital proliferation and if you want to compete these days, you ain’t gonna get far without Supers. In a world without Supers (just imagine), everyone would fly small ships and the possibility to make deciding progress in subcaps is a lot bigger, as they are vastly easier to have.
So yeah, I think it’s fair to say that the big power blocs affect about everyone. From NS politics to lowsec to highsec, although that in a more indirect way. At the very least, I can’t disregard that as a factor. So, I, personally, really do care. I think it’s important.
I am happy to see that, indeed. Just the big “after the war” that is concerning. The current conflict is great, that’s for sure.
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I neglect nothing, you are just off point. The point isn’t ‘maintaining space,’ it’s risk/reward, convenience/reward, difficulty/reward, etc.
And your vibe is of an a$$hole and a moron.
Virus of this kind would come from researching mutaplasmids, the bioenginered extromophiles eating ships other than Triglavian.
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Brings me back to the idea of making mining more manual, by having to do things all the time, that doesn’t allow multiboxing 10 Rorquals with ease.
Yeah some things like that. I’m still working on a concept tbh.
Again, this depends on the reason for this discussion. If ones motivation is to beat Goons specifically, this might or might not work. I don’t know how well they would do forming 100 small fleets. If the motivation is to have more interesting gameplay however, it could help.
Oh yes, I absolutely agree, but we are beyond the point where this is fixable within the current constraints of the game. They also have a lot of gravity that pulls smaller groups into them. But again, the question is whether people think the mechanics themselves are okay and it’s just bad that one specific groups wins or if how things are working in general is what makes people unhappy.
I don’t think people who want an easy way to copy Goons economic output deserve any kind of support by mechanics. People who want more opportunities to play the game entirely different however, those deserve to be heard.
Answer this question:
why do you think that NPC-Sov yields less rewards than Player-Sov does? Do you think it’s because big power blocs cried for it or do you think that it’s very intentionally designed this way by CCP?
Do you not see a connection between the development of a system within Player-Sov and the ISK that can be earned? If you can’t, then I can’t help you - if you see a connection there, then we can talk about why this is the case and we will see that, at the end of the day, effort put into a system is very much a balancing factor for the possible returns of a system.
Then we can talk about how “unfair” isk per hour really is. Until then, I am perfectly fine with
I’ve seen a fair share of these over the time, but I doubt something like that will ever happen. CCP already has a way to completely stop multiboxing, and I believe they are very much fine with leaving Multiboxing alone. Infact, I have troubles imagining a world without Multiboxing, as mineral prices would probably increase to unseen levels.
Either that, or yields would have to be stellar to compensate, which would turn mining very quickly into the single highest paid activity ingame. I think even supers would pale in comparison.
To be fair, I can see very little “different gameplay” aslong as Eve is primarily the N+ game that it is. Everything can be “won” by bringing bigger numbers and I can’t even imagine a way to provide a lot of different gameplay aslong as this is the case (well, not everything… the server crashes at some point).
Not necessarily a bad thing.
Splits like this create a great deal of opportunity for the ambitious/subversive to cut off their own piece of the cake.
What are these new “Pillars of Power” you refer to?
Why? They still would be organized as a single group, just instead fo “Goons haves sent 1,000 bees to battle us” would be “the enemy are 1,000 guys who happen to coordinate their actions as if they were one single entity although they all are in NPC corps”.
They would be split ingame, but still organized out of game. EVE would see 1,000 neutrals instead of 1,000 Goons, but they still would act organized.
This is why all ideas about limiting the size of organizations are foolish. The Goons were born out of game at the SA forums, they don’t need EVE to coordinate themselves within EVE. Probably the secret of their success is this: they are an organization outside of EVE, an alien force to say so, compared to their “born in EVE” enemies.
Are you aware of how bee/wasp hives proliferate in nature?
Whatever the answer to your question is, it is irrelevant to me and to the topic of this post. I don’t care whether the game is the way it is due to power blocs crying, or CCP, or both. This post is about risk/reward, convenience/reward, and work/reward, difficulty/reward, etc, IRRESPECTIVE of goons or anyone else. The fact is, take the same goon organization and drop it in wormhole space, and they will have less reward for more risk, more inconvenience, more difficulty, and more work. What part of that do you not comprehend?
If changes are made and goons thrive even more than they do now - fantastic, I wish them the best. Or if they hate it, well, “it sucks to be you.” I have said a million times that the point of this post is not to hate on, or nerf goons. I have said a million times that I don’t care about goons. I have said a million times, and will say it now for a million and one times, that the point is to take seriously the idea of ‘risk/reward’ as well as some things that may not have been thought about like ‘convenience/reward’ and ‘difficulty/reward.’
Sure. It’s irrelevant to this post.
it absolutely isn’t. If you want to decouple Risk, Reward and Effort from each other only to then complain about fractions of it, then you can’t expect to be taken seriously, like: at all. That’s not how arguments are made.
Yes yes, you can say that Wormholes are oh so much more dangerously and yield oh so little rewards, but even that is not true if you do it right and consider all things and not only the ones that are the most convenient for you. 
The fact that Player Sov makes any significant ISK comes from the very fact that it’s inhabitants developed the system so that it allows to yield significant isk. Hence, you simply can’t make an argument about the ISK/H in Nullsec without considering it.
But then again, you don’t want to be taken seriously, and that’s what you got here in the thread, I would say.
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Each is separate. It is necessary to decouple each to understand them, individually, so as to understand their complex interaction therafter, in total.
You have serious reading comprehension issues. I’m not making an argument about the ISK/H in nullsec - that’s incidental. I’m making an argument about risk/reward, convenience/reward, difficulty/reward, etc.
Having said that, the reason the inhabitants of those systems you speak of were able to develop the space is because CCP gave them the exclusive tools to develop it - tools which nobody else in any other area of space received.
I’m taken seriously by plenty of people, not that I care either way. My well being especially doesn’t depend on being taken seriously by you, so whether you want to take things seriously or not is up to you, and nobody else cares.
I have taken you seriously and you have made good points, I have some differences in opinion because I have been building up my stuff to fight for our space, but I do understand where you are coming from.
As per normal certain people went after you personally which is the way of the Eve forums, and I think you handled it rather well. Respect to you.
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Thank you. There are a few people on these forums that, agree or disagree with me, are civil in doing so. You are one of them.
Respect.
The Goon situation in Delve is an issue/elephant nobody wants to look at.
But someone is going to have to, sooner or later.
While I a new to EVE, I have been doing a lot of reading (both on the Forums and else where).
Looking at the various corporations, some have figured out how to use the Metadata to their advantage to know where and what to do. Yeah someone is putting in the work outside the game to know which direction to go and how best to approach things to have the best risk/reward. WAY MORE work than I would want to do.
Now I am headed to the back row to sit and keep learning.
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