This debate has been going on 4ever, problem is people want grab bag prizes instead of just enjoying themselves, they peek into their neighbor’s yard seeing that blasto 1000 BBQ pit and feel bad about their 100 series, don’t.
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From what you described happening to you, it sounds like the game should be: lots of challenge, a bit of reward, a proper amount of risk.
The problem is not that you in NPC Null are having a bad risk/reward balance for your activities, the problem is that risk vs. reward does not matter in very large Sov Null groups, because statistcally they’ll profit anyway.
This is due to how several factors multiply each others influence. Personally I think the largest problem is how much profit per system is possible in Sov Null, both in regards to ratting and to mining. The 2nd largest problem is how relatively easy it is to avoid PVP in comparison to how relatively hard it is to force a fight.
Alas, there is absolutely no need to discuss this again. The mining changes and the Rorquals have irreversibly shaped the game in terms of player behaviour and as a result also wealth distribution. Everybody who doesn’t rake in the profits from Sov Null at this point (and who isn’t “old money”), is simply denying CCP’s suggestion to take part in the economic race. Good. I agree with that choice. But, it has been like that for a couple of years now. There is no reason to even try and negotiate with CCP about it. They have declared their allegiance to a concept (not a group) and either you accept it or you don’t: it does not matter. Whining about it, will not change a thing.
The god-like intervention to reshape the game into one of pure economic grinding, has necessarily divided the playerbase. There is no turning back from that. It’s a sorry excuse of a placeholder in lack of more interesting game mechanics. They can’t deliver us more excitement and better challenges through depth of choice or chaotic game enviroments, so they settled with offering us a race of economic forces.
I think that’s less than EVE can be. But, people who are asking to also be on the “sunny side” of this economic race will not find my support. Either you deny these mechanics alltogether or you are just buying into accepting the same stupid behaviour, the same set of goals.
CCP Fozzie announced (and of course never delivered) something new and special for Lowsec about a year ago. If there is anything to discuss, it would be ideas of how to shape the game into a more exciting one, with deeper choices, entropy and some true chaos. Mechanics that make it impossible to be a corporate sucker, who is statistically safe. As in: make the game dangerous for everyone (again?). Mechanics that support actual groups and not anonymous mega corps.
Remember though, that the damage concerning ISK and Minerals has already been done. There is no way to even this out, not in a decade, not in two. The only way to approach a visionary plan for EVE would be to make both ISK and minerals less important by introducing more such factors of power, which can’t be acquired in the static gameplay of living in an area, which can’t be raked in the same ways.
The chances that something like this is introduced are slim, as it 's really a lot of effort and possibly costs more ressources than CCP has. But it’s still better to discuss something that is theoretically do-able and would actually change things, than to whine about how you are not on the sunny side of crap mechanics.
Tl;Dr the people who are running Nullsec Anoms non-stop (taken they are not botting) are wasting their precious lifetime for something utterly idiotic and something that won’t help them have more fun in this game. To follow the incentives to take part in the economic race in EVE is giving up on the vision of a scary, dangerous space game. And this is what you do, when you whine about not getting the same as Sov Nullers. Don’t waste your lifetime. Play the game in a way that you enjoy or let it be.
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If one chooses to live in w-space, he must realize that the game developers do not. They do not completely understand w-space as they do o.o. A good illustration of this is THERA. Lower your expectations of content and isk from CCP and make your own…That is the wormhole way.
You seem to have decided on what everyone is saying before they even have said it.
What part of exploiting Null from WHs has anything to do with your reply?
That is literally the solution to your apparent problem, but youd rather strawman it into “WHs are better than Null” somehow.
If thats your attitude its no wonder you are having a sad.
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I have decided on what no one said before he said it. Like anyone and everyone else, I try to understand and interpret what someone says, and what he means. Now, if I didn’t ‘get’ you or ‘feel’ you, sorry, by all means correct me. But that’s no reason to go on about how I’m trying to decide what you said before you even said it.
Well, you did claim I “meant” something I certainly didnt say.
I meant exactly what Id said;
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WH Relic and Data Sites are often worth a heck of a lot more than 30m, though if you were only doing Class 1s that might explain your lower incomes
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WHs open to Null all the time, allowing you to exploit those same resources that you say are only for the boys club. Agin, the higher the class, the better the income you can get.
I see old man gathering wood in a forest.
And bunch of armed ones below.
Either old dude need armed squad to gather wood,or armed dudes will need to be armed in old age and gather wood together can’t say what sounds weirder.
Maybe old dude like nature but armed dudes like desert…and you can’t be solo and not armed in desert…maybe.
Oh wait it’s something eve related be solo is being old and alone,or join us in our youngsters armed club we be cool.
Almost failed that one.
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Yep, it’s a tough one.
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You sound a little salty @elitatwo
Good job putting words in my mouth when I’m literally just pointing out the difference between using teamwork to obtain a semblance of safety in a dangerous universe. As opposed to simply forging it alone and expecting anything remotely similar.
Yeah, I love this old chestnut. Total bullsh!t. But repeated ad nauseum.
Most people in the big nullsec cartels aren’t involved in much teamwork. A lot of them don’t know many, if any, of their corpmates. They just do their own individual thing (mining, ratting), and are farmed for taxes. I’m not knocking it, I’m not insulting it. But I am trying to dispel myths.
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Maybe if you formed a team you’ll have more luck with it.
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I do not have the energy for a well thought out reply, but in the interest of guiding the conversation so that it is academically productive:
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Is there an actual difference between the value of cans in the two areas of space being compared?
1a) If yes, what are the mechanics that cause this to be the case?
1b) If no, what is causing some people to notice an apparent difference? -
Should CCP alter Eve’s risk/reward balance to take into account the ability of players to change the safety of the space they inhabit?
2a) What are the knock on effects of making a change like this? -
Who is responsible for posing a threat to those inhabiting player made ‘safe space’? CCP, or other players? Why?
3a) If players are responsible, how should they threaten that space?
3b If CCP is responsible, how should they threaten that space?
3c If both are responsible, what measures should each side employ to threaten that space?
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You only get the reward if you can overcome the challenge, simply taking a risk isn’t grounds for reward. I gave you a bunch of ways to make buckets of isk, and all you did was come back and complain more.
Like I said earlier NPC null has pirate missions. You can create burner missions endlessly and with organization farm the bloody hell out of them. Last I looked that was ~500m/hr I’d guess guristas/serpentis are even higher right now thanks to abyssal deadspace and demand for crystals/gilas and asklepians.
Gotta give your meat shields, no plebs, errm members content! Go VNI grind for a few hours and get a throw away roam in return, never mind the 15% tax! Grind grind grind till you can get a bigger ship to grind even more! Oh and buy that bigger ship from our miners and industrialists!
I think the biggest score I ever got…
I think I see the problem…
Q: would you go to Vegas and say the same thing? Would you complain to them that that are not being generous enough to you?
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You could be a vagabond. Then CCP allowed to place POSes into WHs…
It is shocking that this conversation has continued into some teamwork tangent that is completely irrelevant to the problem at hand. Its kind of like people just invent the reason something is the way it is instead of actually checking why something is happening.
It is like every thread on this forum devolves into something about defending why Nullsec is shafting the rest of the game or why Null is perceived as getting this huge reward over everybody. But that’s not the case here, only 1/4 of Null gets the reward while 3/4 get the shaft.
What you want to tell people how “great” Null is and how you should be striving to get there, yea maybe you should start here.
Now shut up about how great it is and go back to being a punching bag.
Prices are still player-made. When an alliances controls and area and manages to hold it then this is also their reward. They can control the prices of certain items. This is intentional, by both CCP and the players.
OP only doesn’t want it and doesn’t want others to have it. Instead, he wants God to control the prices and fairies to distribute the loot everywhere equally so he doesn’t feel jealous.
TL;DR: working as intended, OP sucks and is possibly a communist.
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Right, because I said I don’t want market prices in the game, or in real life either because apparently I’m a communist and apparently Whitehound knows it. What else do you know about me, Whitehound?
Jealousy has nothing to do with anything, you just have diarrhea of the mouth and enjoy running it about things you have no earthly idea about . I can easily apply and join the same corps others join. Horde is free for everyone to join - heck I’ve even joined before just so I could fly around up there and see what the place is like. I could join Goons or Test tomorrow if I wanted. I have a standing invitation to join the corp where my friend rakes in the goodies like manna raining down from Heaven. So there’s nothing to be jealous about.
What it really is about is people like you who defend the status quo because it benefits them to do so.
You don’t even believe this yourself. 