I don’t need a unicorn lmao. Go and hug one if that what you are after.
What I want is a game that works. currently the condition of that scenario is not known once you involve larger groups of people. Duh. What a concept!
As a line member who put my ship on the line, I did not jump in expecting the server to blow up. I did what the FC’s said knowing that my ship might well blow up. I knew there would be lag and I might die before the system loaded.
I did not expect the results of what actually happened. People we jumping in, cap was being taken, jump timers were given and then they were bounced back to staging system after an hour or so.
My ship jumped, all my mods went offline, it wasn’t recognising my skills at all. This means I could not fight at all, even if there were only 10 of us against 700 Titans/many supers.
I couldn’t put smartbombs on to get rid of bubbles. My jump range was 3LY when I have JDC V.
I have paid for my subscription for many years which meant that I could train these skills.
On the other hand, there was a killmail for both of my ships that I pressed jump on, which are both empty. I still show as in my ships in M2-, even with 0% structure. I have not received an insurance payout or anything showing that my ship has actually died. I have 2 so called ‘ghost’ ships. No one knows what the deal is with these.
Will I ever get my skills back and working when I log back in? Are these ships dead or alive? Is there a population cap? Will CCP ever explain what actually happened with the server calls on this occasion? Why were things happening that have never happened before and were they intended by CCP?
Are ‘Ghost’ ships intended?
I will reiterate: I understand the risk I took when I pressed jump. I am one of the lucky ones that have multiple ships that I can get back in.
The solution to this issue that doesn’t involve nerfing or hardware is to spread the fights out across numerous systems. WWII, for example, is historically broken down into numerous individual battles which all have their own names.
We’ve seen this to a limited extent in Eve, as certain systems in Null were the focal point for major battles, but those were individual battles within larger campaigns to overtake parts of space.
Projection/movement currently allows for the majority of the troops to join on one battle very quickly. Due to tidi and the mechanics surrounding large fights, it’s possible to get into a sub-capital, and cross New Eden in enough time to join a large battle (assuming you aren’t met with a gate camp, etc.) just using standard gates. Perhaps not in a Battleship, but definitely a cruiser.
On top of that, you have jump clones. So even if you removed the ability to jump across New Eden to get to a huge battle, alliance would just require people to have jump clones in certain key locations, and then when a big battle popped up, people could just jump clones (the solution to this specific problem would be to have a timer that you have to wait through until jump clone activation that is based on the distance of the clone you are jumping to).
The single largest problem with this entire issue is not hardware limitations. It’s not people “cheating”. It’s CCP’s fetish for making headlines. Reading some of the CSM comments on this thread makes it quite clear that headlines and records are the only thing that matters.
Yeah, I know. “Marketing”. They always tout their records and big numbers, but magically the reality of tidi, disconnections, and other issues somehow never get mentioned. Videos of fights that are shown in official capacity are always sped up so people unfamiliar with the game don’t fall out of their chairs laughing at how long it takes for a single shot to be fired. It’s all smoke and mirrors.
The solutions that resolve these issues will never see the light of day because it would result in “the precious” being taken away (big numbers and headlines).
- Require a structure to be in a system that a group wants to claim as theirs. Could be a keepstar or whatever, but it should be a certain class of structure.
- Require a pre-determined number of structures/systems to be simultaneously attacked in order to weaken the defenses of a targeted structure in a desired system.
- Once all structures are under a specific threshold of defense, require a specific fleet-member/ship/item in the target system to trigger the fall of that systems structure.
Yeah, it’s absurd, but it also gets around the problem of needing better server equipment, and doesn’t require the nerfing of any ships.
New Eden also could be made larger, either by adding a huge number of new star systems, effectively increasing the cluster size by 4x or so, and/or by making it take a heck of a lot longer to travel across the cluster.
“but muh big numbers and name in lights!” - CCP
Yes, that is a fact. Nobody disputes this.
It would be awesome otherwise, but whenever CCP does something to improve the situation players respond by finding the new limit. With the current technology and improvements CCP has implemented the fights with 500, 1,000 even 2,000 players wouldn’t be that bad.
But the players also react to those changes.
No, they are pointing out reality as it currently stands. You are pointing to some wonderful future, which we may never attain.
This past fight is not just “Oh the servers didn’t work!” In fact, that is the spin from the losing side. But as you have noted, they knew that the outcome they got was a very real possibility. So if anything you look like you are on the losing side. I thought you were until I logged into the game and looked at your history. I realized, “No…this is a different thing.”
And let us be honest about this last fight, the PAPI side screwed up multiple times. After the first fight, which was sort of okay, aside from the soul crushing tidi, PAPI decided to cede the field to the Imperium after downtime leaving a big chunk of the super capital fleet logged off. Anyone who fights the Imperium should know what they are like. They will Hellcamp you for weeks if necessary. Hell, Vily used to be in the Imperium. ProGodLegend has fought them often enough to know this too.
So a sequence of bad decisions that also pushed the servers past their capabilities resulted in a turkey shoot.
There is no way CCP can make it so a fight with 8,000 or 10,000 players can happen. It simply isn’t feasible. This is why I am saying you are screaming at everyone about not respecting your wish for a unicorn.
And to say it is just CCP’s fault when the players keep throwing players into these big fights even as CCP makes improvements is kind of silly too. This is what happens when you have a number of participants making decisions separately and at the same strategically.
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People can point out to whatever they want lmao.
Won’t change a a thing as to why my statement is factually correct yet they are trying turbo hard to convince me otherwise.
This is the problem. People can’t actually read and they are replying with their personal opinions justifying current state of affairs and their workarounds which ultimately are meaningless cause performance or lack of it is and always will be on CCP to handle. If the servers can’t handle it then shut them down. I had two titans (I only have one) in my hangar after 40 min warp tunnel that ultimately brought me back to point of origin lmao.
**only asterisk here is the ISP but that shouldn’t dramatically apply to this scenario.
It’s a simple concept. Basic I would say lmao.
Comical. 10 years after Y2, CCP still hasn’t figured out how to make the game playable for it’s claim to fame, huge battles.
And people still spend money on this game?
Nah, we’re just holding stupid decision making accountable rather than REEEEE’ing at CCP because people knew what the technology was capable of (within a reasonable set of parameters) and made a stupid decision that was going to end exactly how it did, anyway.
And those that would do the REEE’ing.
But you keep editing your posts 6 or 7 times to add more and more, fam.
The prior record was just over 6,500. This last fight barely pushed past that to a bit over 6,600. That is about the limit. When the system is already chock full of players/pilots jumping into that system is extremely risky. Your FCs widely under-estimated that risk. To be quite honest, as someone sitting in system waiting…I didn’t think you guys would take the fight. And, IMO, that would have been the smartest move.
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Lmao. Keep it going.
You are proving my point one post at a time.
Again, nothing to do with the facts and my statement.
How hard can it be to grasp this hahaha
Your ‘point’ is a non-point. It’s like saying ‘The Ice cream melted so you failed, Ice cream.’ We don’t blame the ice cream for that, we blame the person who left it on the counter all afternoon.
You wanna say the server performed below expectation? Sure, no argument.
But you’re dumping the entire steaming pile on CCP when they’re not the ones who made the decision to do something that was with certainty going to break it.
So your vaunted point is irrelevant because your logic behind it is to just place blame rather than assess why.
But yeah, you keep trying to defend that position. Lemme know how well that goes for you on this forum. Spoiler: It’s not going well, nor will it.
EDIT: Or if you want another analogy, you’re shoving your refrigerator full of everything AND the kitchen sink, not letting the door close, air to circulate correctly, or anything else it needs to function, then calling the manufacture and griping that your milk went bad.
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The ‘You shouldn’t have taken the fight because of the server status’ argument is one that is obvious now that we know the limit of the server. We had over 6500 in TZ and we had 4500 without TiDi.
The problem with the ‘You shouldn’t have taken the fight because of the server status’ argument is that we all know that the defense meta is now going to be log in 2000 supers post DT and drop fighters so no one can kill the objective. Overload the server with calls. This is not sustainable as much as capital proliferation isn’t, so I’m sure will be high on CCP’s agenda. I believe that they are probably having multiple ‘Big table’ meetings this week to discuss it. This war is giving CCP headlines. This situation is not a good one for them.
If they want more good headlines from this war this is a situation that is going to have to be ratified as with the current server mechanics, neither side can take any major objectives due to the sheer number of players participating.
The Imperium side are happy right now, and so would I be if I were them. On the other hand I would be quick to pull out the same tactic if they got into the same situation as PAPI are in now. That’s not because I’m a dick (well maybe I am a little) but because I like blowing stuff up and don’t want to lose my home systems.
I’ll make this quite simple so your quarterbrain can actually get on the convo at hand.
QUESTION:
What is the name of the developer that is responsible for the development and maintenance of the product that you pay for using REAL life money??
You have one fact that I have acknowledged. Yes, the servers cannot support fights beyond a certain point. Right now that point is about 5,000-6,000 players depending on certain factors.
That is your only “fact”.
I don’t think anyone is disputing this.
You don’t like this fact. Yet show up here on the forums to rage post screaming at everyone how stupid they are. Tell me do you still log in at all? Because if you don’t that would be even more amusing.
The rest of the stuff you post is incoherent gibberish like “it is only anecdotal data” that “happens so often you’ve lost count”. This is contradictory. You want to claim there is no reliable data, yet you insist there is reliable data. Which is it?
Yes, the severs do not work optimally in these kinds of fight. We know that. Most of us have sat in that soul crushing tidi. Many of us have had bad outcomes from jumping into such fights late in the game. And this is why in many cases establishing grid control early on is so vital.
So pointing out the servers do not work perfectly…okay, thanks. You can stop posting now, we got that point awhile ago.
(I know you won’t stop posting…heck you said you were done with this thread and yet here you still are.)
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QUESTION:
What is the name of the developer that is responsible for the development and maintenance of the product that you pay for using REAL life money??
Answers:
-
CCP (or their parent)
This means that whatever goes with the game is their fault. It’s their code, their infrastructure, their responsibility. -
Anything but #1 makes you look stupid.
That’s a leading question that does not adequately the scope of the situation at hand, so is therefore invalid for consideration.
Let’s ask a real question.
Did the servers perform sub optimally?
Yes
Okay, cool, what does that question do for us?
Nothing
Okay, cool so let’s ask another question.
Why did the servers fail?
Option A) Because CCP has done nothing over the years to improve the quality of their servers and the player base has NEVER ever just upped the number of people they’ve thrown in the moment CCP upgrades the server
Option B) Because players made the decision to YEET many thousands more players than have ever been in any system at any point into a single system and broke the server, then went and complained on the forum about it.
Well, option B, but you don’t like that because it doesn’t fit your narrative.
Yes, the server performed sub optimally. But again, CCP did NOT try and jump several thousand players directly onto a hot grid with several thousand players. Players did that. Players who had PLENTY of evidence, by the very nature of your angsty thread title, that doing so was bad idea and would break the server.
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Spinmaster 5000
What kind of simp you got to be to think that it’s not developers responsibility for whatever happens in game that they designed lmao.
If your in game button lets you “jump” then it means that it lets you jump. Nothing to with should or should not.
FFS lmao there a massive difference here.
Were you jumping 1,000 people into T5Z? Were there a ton of bubbles on grid? Were you fighting and had all your fighters out? One thing is not like the other. You could see the situation in M2- via twitch streams at the very least. And yeah, once we were set up in M2- we also had little tidi as we simply sat there waiting. Sitting there doing virtually nothing with a ton of people is not really a big issue.
Nobody logged in 2,000 supers post DT. In fact, once we logged back in we got the big stuff out. And it was your FCs who decided to not log back in whereas our orders were to log back in ASAP.
I doubt it. This has been “an issue” supposedly ever since the first alliance got 2 titans. Titan and capital proliferation has always been “an issue” and yet here we are with players who have multiple titans kind of like suits to wear. My Monday titan, my Tuesday titan, my Wednesday titan, and on the weekends I wear my super carriers for funnsies.
Yes and no. We too wanted a great fight. But taking out that many titans as you guys invade and want to take our space…we’ll take it.
You mean like the 154 bubbles you guys deployed to get your titan online that really put considerable amount of stress on the servers…that kind of thing? Gee…would you like your cake back? 
I put to you. If we put 5000 people on a Keepstar, what would your tactic be to take the hull timer?
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And this is where your overwhelming ignorance shows through.
I’ve already said the servers need to perform better, that their performance in that fight was not good, and that we all want them to do better. I’ve already listed some of the issues in the programming that CCP are directly responsible for. I’ve acknowledged where CCP has messed up and can improve.
You, however, are stuck on calling the refrigerator repair man about your milk going off because you crammed it so full you couldn’t shut the door. Good fight, was fun.
You shoulda quit when you said you were done.
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